FFXII Spoiler/Plot Discussion

[Nil]

There are lots of spoiler type stuff I wanted to ramble about in FFXII and get folks' opinons, but we did a good job keeping the other one relatively spoiler-free. So anyway, in this thread, if you don't want to be spoiled, don't read.

I'll start if off with something fairly light (that probably won't hurt anyone's game, in case you accidentally clicked on this one):

The summons are useless in this game, but they still facinate me, where are they from? Here are the ones I've found so far:

Belias - Not sure where he comes from, but it could be the Zodiac Brave Vellius (the best one, and it looks alot like him. Weigraf, if so.).

Adrammelech - Another Zodiac Brave (Adramelk, in FFT-Dycedarg)

Zalera - Another Zodiac Brave (Same name, even. Elmdor)

Mateus - Beats me. Anyone know?

Exodus - This has to be Ex-Death from FFV. Looks like him, has similar attacks. I love the reused bosses.

Cúchulainn - Draclau's Zodiac Brave (called Queklain)

Zeromus - I was thrilled to find the boss of FFIV (one of my favorites in the series).

Famfrit - Boss of FFIII

It seems to me that I have one more, but I don't remember who it is (so, probably someone I don't see a connection to).

I'm sure there are more espers out there. We have the bosses of FF3, 4, and 5. I'm thinking it fairly unlikely that the Emperor (of FF2) is an esper as it wouldn't go with the "freaky-beast" thing that the others have going on. Same with Cefka. Chaos could be there, though (and since there's no Ultima spell, then Atma/Altima/Ultima is likely out there somewhere as well). That'd be cool.

So, anyone found any other espers? Thoughts on where they're from (and Mateus)? Or other plottish things (like how similar this is to both FFT and Vagrant Story) you care to discuss?

[Cobalt Katze]

I believe that you're entirely right on the Zodiac Brave ones. Belias, Adrammelech, Zalera, and Cuchulainn are all the same names as the FFT Zodiacs, but this time the translated names are correct to how they're supposed to be spelled/pronounced. Alex O. Smith is meticulous that way

Chaos is indeed an Esper, and looks very similar He's found in Nabudis as part of several side-quests.

Two that you didn't mention which I'm not sure on, are Shemhazai and Hashmal (both achieved in the main storyline)

Then there's Ultima, who is obviously the final boss of FFT, and Zodiark... not certain there, but it's the most powerful of all the Espers.

Additionally, the hardest optional boss in the game is Omega Mark XII... Another FF tradition there.

[Gares91]

I like that they used the name Garland for the resistance fleets main ship, being the first final fantasy's villian. He was so cool, lol. I do like how they reuse name to help spark good memories from old games.

[Nil]

Originally Posted by Cobalt Katze

Two that you didn't mention which I'm not sure on, are Shemhazai and Hashmal (both achieved in the main storyline)

Hashmal is the Brave that sacrificed himself to revive Altima, so that's where he comes from. Like Mateus, I'm not sure who Shemhazai is supposed to be.

Originally Posted by Cobalt Katze

and Zodiark... not certain there, but it's the most powerful of all the Espers.

Zodiac was the boss of the deep (optional) dungeon in FFT. The hardest boss in that game.

Originally Posted by Cobalt Katze

Additionally, the hardest optional boss in the game is Omega Mark XII... Another FF tradition there.

I remember it took me about 45 tries to kill him in FF8 before I finally decided to use my invincibility potions.

Originally Posted by Gares91

I like that they used the name Garland for the resistance fleets main ship, being the first final fantasy's villian. He was so cool, lol. I do like how they reuse name to help spark good memories from old games.

8-bit theatre made Garland famous. The Garland in FFIX was a much better defined character.

[Coinspinner]

A long time ago there was a thread on the FFT board at GameFAQs where we deciphered the Ivalician runes (just a straight cipher of English) and were able to read the various magic circles, signs, maps and such that were written in Ivalician. We were able to discover the names of all the Zodiac braves (not just the ones in the game) amongst other things. They are rather twisted, not only being altered from the original name but also passed through the filter of Japanese pronunciation and then translated to English. Most are fallen angels.

FFT:
Belias(Velius) = Aries
Duma = Taurus
Zalhera(Zarela) = Gemini
Zebyeb = Cancer
Hashmalim(Hashmalum) = Leo
Ultima(Altima) = Virgo
Sel = Libra
Cuchulainn(Queklain) = Scorpio
Rophochele = Sagittarius
Adrammelech(Adramelk) = Capricorn
Cheraub = Aquarius
Leviathan = Pisces

Now for FF12. These are the fruits of Google and Encyclopedia Mythica! Note that some zodiac signs have changed hands.

Zalera, the Death Seraph: Anagram of Azrael, the angel who separates the soul from the body at death. Associated with Gemini in FFT and here he has a partner with him, apparently a shaman he fell in love with.

Belias, the Gigas: Velius = Belias = Belial = Satan, OR just some fallen angel, OR a Godless evil spirit whose followers opposed law and order. Associated with Aries in FFT, where his class was "Warlock". Is "opposition to law and order" reflected in Wiegrafs Death Corps?

Adrammelech, the Wroth: Just Google it, lol. Adramelk was associated with Capricorn in FFT and called the "Ghost of Fury".

Shemhazai, the Whisperer: A high angel who instructed humans in righteousness. Led the group that eventually mated with human women to produce the Nephilim. Associated with Scorpio in FFXII according to the Scorpio Gate/Switch in Giruvegan. Note that in FFT, Queklain/Cuchulainn was the one associated with Scorpio. I don't remember seeing her name in the old FFT list so she's probably a new addition.

Hashmal, Bringer of Order: AKA "Hashmallim", mistranslated as "Hashmalum". A Dominion rank angel, the rank said to regulate the duties of God. Associated with Leo in FFT where he is known as '"The Regulator" and was the driving force behind Ultima's resurrection.

Famfrit, the Darkening Cloud: FF3 boss, where he was called Cloud of Darkness I think. Now associated with Aquarius. See his blue armor and big water jug?

Mateus, the Corrupt: A lot of sources say it's "Emperor Matias Paramekia" from FF2. The bestiary states that this esper is male. The female form you see must be the ice goddess he used as a living shield. Associated with Pisces (note that the goddess looks like a mermaid.)

~~~~Need filling in later.

Exodus: A valid translation of the boss's name in FF5, also known as Exdeath or X-Death.

Ultima: The most powerful attack spell in most FF games. She was called Altima in FFT.

~~~~I'll finish this up some other day. Tired now.

[Cobalt Katze]

Nice, Coin

I'm actually working on a FAQ right now, doing the complete Bestiary & Lore listing taken from the game. Nothing fancy like level, HP or anything, just a listing of all the Observations of the creatures sorted by genus. And then the Lore unlocked in the Bestiary, sorted into their respective catagories (Sage's Wisdom, Aletap Rumours, etc.)

Pretty huge project, but hey

[Coinspinner]

I beat the game last night just before posting that, I still need half the espers but I've completed maybe 3/4 of the marks. Rare game AKA the hunt club is annoying as heck... I'd already killed several rare game before I met them and got no trophies for it.

I didn't explore "the sky fortress" either. And there's tons of sidequests I've started but not finished. Sooo much to do. :x

[Cobalt Katze]

There's actually nothing to explore. It's a big continuous circle that constantly pushes you towards the central lift where you fight Gabranth. So no worries

[Coinspinner]

Oh good. Those guys were slaughtering me. I was really surprised by how easy those last battles were after that nightmare* in the central pillar room. And after the damn lighthouse I found it hard to believe the dungeon was so short.

*Am I the only one who thinks the limit on simultaneous spell animations really really sucks?

Edit: My new avatar owns.

[Cobalt Katze]

Haha, nice. Apart from Orthros/Ultros though, I can't tell exactly what is going on with the left half...

And er, for my level 54 party the final battle was really challenging. If you do a ton of optional content and level up a lot, of course it'll be a cakewalk hehe.