Being passed over for Paly and DK's

[ellestil]

Honestly, I have yet to see any tank passed over due to his class for grouping. What I do see is people lfg because the server populations are low and levels of players are all spread out, areas of interest are spread out as well. Vanguard was sized to accomodate 500k players on its servers. At around 150k players spread on the servers, the world seems too large. Add to that crafting and diplomacy taking people away from adventuring, and the population seems even smaller.

Anyhoo, shouts I see in world channels are "LFM, need tank", not "LFM need DK or Paly."

[Pudsley]

Originally Posted by ellestil

Honestly, I have yet to see any tank passed over due to his class for grouping. What I do see is people lfg because the server populations are low and levels of players are all spread out, areas of interest are spread out as well. Vanguard was sized to accomodate 500k players on its servers. At around 150k players spread on the servers, the world seems too large. Add to that crafting and diplomacy taking people away from adventuring, and the population seems even smaller.

Anyhoo, shouts I see in world channels are "LFM, need tank", not "LFM need DK or Paly."

You're right, at present there is a shortage of tanks, War, DK or Paly....so often a group will take any tank, but given the choice they take specifically a Paly or a DK, it's more of a future proofing, I hope that one day the servers are populated properly and there are enough tanks so that people can choose between a few tanks, I also hope that Warriors offer something worthwhile to not be last in line to be chosen.

[Pudsley]

Originally Posted by Venge

I'm not sure, do you think I'm listening? Most of the changes made, I feel have summed upa huge number of warrior issues. Just no one has yet to test them to give adequate feedback on aside myself.

I know you're listening Venge and I really appreciate all the work you've done thus far, I hope you continue to represent us, don't listen to the Shamans, they may offer dental plans and bonuses based on results but it's all smoke and mirrors, tell them where to shove their totems!!!.

So far I've been pretty happy with the changes you've helped bring about, they've all been positive, I hope you'll agree though that we are still not there.

I don't like to dwell on the "leap attack replacement" subject because frankly we've improved a lot recently and to drown it out with cries of "bring back leap attack" is a little narrow minded, but the fact that you mentioned recently that it will one day make a come back is a very promising ray of light, combine a new attack of similar focus as LA and we'll be a very enjoyable solo class I feel.

The group commands still need a complete overhaul, I can make use of them after the first round of changes (a definate improvement), but I still find them lacking, when my fixed group asked me about them there was an incredible silence after each description, frankly they could care less about most of them.

Still trialing the latest change to group commands, it takes me a while to work them into my tactics and as such I don;t have immediate feedback on them, although I can speculate as to what the effects are...

1) Improved solo ability slightly, more apparant with Strike now when I get it, but charge also probably helps.

2) Just a little more aggro gen, now when I buff my groups damage I'm not signing my death warrant with regards to aggro, I get the same boost as they cancelling out the negative affects.

[Adino]

Well, I was playing a warrior and my pally buddy and I were leveling together. I was sure I'd be the raid tank and I told him to work on being an off-healer and a buffer. We were going along just fine, but it became more and more noticeable that he had better mitigation than me, even after he buffed me! I saw the future I was facing and stopped. I deleted that warrior and made cleric to heal my pally friend. We almost can't be killed, even in at 40+!

For those pallys that don't understand or the warriors that are defensive about it, you can trust me on this: Pallys are better tanks and have more utility, even in a raid format. I know it because I found out the hard way and it sucks for warriors.

A 6-man group doesn't need a warrior. It needs a tank. A pally has +15% mit in def stance on top of his buffs !! If you're a warrior in greystone, you're severely out-classed because of the Pally's hate-generation against undead, so you're really doing the wrong area if you want to PUG. The fact that Pallys can buff their party and give everyone a LOT more survivability and then reduce their melee hate with another buff, is just an added bonus. Don't forget the quality AND quantity of rescues a pally gets. Throw in the pally's rez spell, and a warrior SHOULD feel cheated!

It's not that warriors need to be unique or get some group utility, they flat need better mitigation! Even a DK can add up 5% mitigation as they build their DC up to level 5, for a total of 15%.Add in things like Bleak Foeman, which is only on a world cool-down timer and gives 100% chance to block the next incoming attack, and even DKs will take less damage.

The Devs need to face it: Pallys heal themselves, have better mitigation, can rez, and get really good buffs! If the only game in town is an Undead dungeon, then Warriors are up a creek with no paddle! They need to raise warrior's Defensive stance mitigation by 10%, bringing it 20%, or the class won't be able to compete with Pallys. The Warrior should be meant to be a raid tank and it can't do that if a pally's base stats are so much better! The worst thing the Devs could do is break the Paladin class so there are no complete tanks. So as long as they are working on the Warriors, at least there's hope. So, don't dispair and don't delete your warriors, just make a cleric or a pally!

[Venge]

Originally Posted by Adino

Well, I was playing a warrior and my pally buddy and I were leveling together. I was sure I'd be the raid tank and I told him to work on being an off-healer and a buffer. We were going along just fine, but it became more and more noticeable that he had better mitigation than me, even after he buffed me! I saw the future I was facing and stopped. I deleted that warrior and made cleric to heal my pally friend. We almost can't be killed, even in at 40+!

For those pallys that don't understand or the warriors that are defensive about it, you can trust me on this: Pallys are better tanks and have more utility, even in a raid format. I know it because I found out the hard way and it sucks for warriors.

A 6-man group doesn't need a warrior. It needs a tank. A pally has +15% mit in def stance on top of his buffs !! If you're a warrior in greystone, you're severely out-classed because of the Pally's hate-generation against undead, so you're really doing the wrong area if you want to PUG. The fact that Pallys can buff their party and give everyone a LOT more survivability and then reduce their melee hate with another buff, is just an added bonus. Don't forget the quality AND quantity of rescues a pally gets. Throw in the pally's rez spell, and a warrior SHOULD feel cheated!

It's not that warriors need to be unique or get some group utility, they flat need better mitigation! Even a DK can add up 5% mitigation as they build their DC up to level 5, for a total of 15%.Add in things like Bleak Foeman, which is only on a world cool-down timer and gives 100% chance to block the next incoming attack, and even DKs will take less damage.

The Devs need to face it: Pallys heal themselves, have better mitigation, can rez, and get really good buffs! If the only game in town is an Undead dungeon, then Warriors are up a creek with no paddle! They need to raise warrior's Defensive stance mitigation by 10%, bringing it 20%, or the class won't be able to compete with Pallys. The Warrior should be meant to be a raid tank and it can't do that if a pally's base stats are so much better! The worst thing the Devs could do is break the Paladin class so there are no complete tanks. So as long as they are working on the Warriors, at least there's hope. So, don't dispair and don't delete your warriors, just make a cleric or a pally!

Heh, sounds like troll has gotten loose. I have yet to hear the complaints of warriors taking more damage than paladins. Again, I have no idea what game/class you are playing but right now, I'm hearing paladins want things from the warrior.

[moloka]

Heh, sounds like troll has gotten loose. I have yet to hear the complaints of warriors taking more damage than paladins. Again, I have no idea what game/class you are playing but right now, I'm hearing paladins want things from the warrior.

I must say. If the guy took the time to try warriors and get them up to 20 this isn't a troll incident. Merely a guy yearning to play a class that he wants to be fixed, everyone wants to be fixed...but just yet hasn't happened.

I am really curious as to what you mean by Paladins wanting things from warriors...other then our awesome charge ability! Because we all know in a defensive stance that is about the only thing a warrior can feasibly offer.

One thing that kind of bothers me. And this in no way is a bash to Venge, I think he has done a fine job of relaying information...but is the fact that our class leader who reports there findings to Sigil is not seeing eye to eye with any of our other class members. Most people say hey this is bad and so is this...Venge says I have no idea what your talking about its just fine for me.

Like I have said before...if you are running around with a pack of good players who know what there doing then it makes your job a lot easier and things go un-noticed. But when struggling to get a group, or struggling to keep in the graces of group happy people, or struggling to keep a group of mediocre players above water...its a totally different animal.

I just don't see why Venge isn't having these issues and all these people on the boards are.

[ellestil]

What he means by "Pally's want things from warriors" is, Paladins want to be able to increase their mitigation better. Right now their defensive stance has a set AC value that never changes as they level. Overall their AC buffs are underpowered the higher they level, even the chains that grant AC are pretty lack luster. So they want either the AC to scale up (to stay useful) or have it changed to a % mitigation instead.

[Pudsley]

Originally Posted by ellestil

What he means by "Pally's want things from warriors" is, Paladins want to be able to increase their mitigation better. Right now their defensive stance has a set AC value that never changes as they level. Overall their AC buffs are underpowered the higher they level, even the chains that grant AC are pretty lack luster. So they want either the AC to scale up (to stay useful) or have it changed to a % mitigation instead.

If the Paly AC buff isn't up to scratch then I really hope you get it, I've nothing against Paly's or DK's and you obviously know more than I do (since my Paly is a meagre level 25).

We don't have an AC buff, we have a mitigation increase in Def stance of 15%m maybe that's what you are missing???

We do have a temporary buff, Warders Bulwark, whilst it is awesome at max level giving a boost of 20%, it only last for 30 seconds and requires a crit to activate.

That may not sound like a problem but we are a very crit/finisher dependant class, with the ability to force a crit every 60 seconds we have to choose wisely which finishers to use.

For the most part I end up using our Stinging Cut and Blades bite finishers, they had the majority of our hate when tanking and often I can't spare a crit for Warders Bulwark, it's great for the occaisional mob that really really hits hard, but tough to balance our aggro finishers and our mitigation finisher.

Add to that our armour debuff finishers, our aoe finishers, our newly added def stanc damage finishers and you're stretching those crits very thin.

On higher level mobs I'm finding I don't crit anywhere near enough and as a result my mitigation buff isn't going up as often as I'd like.

[Dajag]

I can understand why people quit - This is a RPG game, when someone likes a style of play and a type of toon thats what they make.

They level that toon expecting to get what they where told they would get when they rolled that toon.

You dont expect to be the same but u do expect be on some sort of even ground with all the other classes.

You name your toon, you to some degree RP your toon (get into the role of the toon you made well u play) YOu attach to that toon.

Then after 1month or more of playing you realize HEY this toon suks it is in no way as good as other classes.

And rather then go through reroll and another month of play or more to get a new toon to lvl you say so-long and wait for the next game which might get it right.

Warriors do not deliver - They do not do enough damage over DK's and pally's (if any) to make them the damage kings.

Damage was the warriors selling point - In offensive stance we do do more damage (burst) but who tanks in offensive stance ?

In defensive stance we can hold argo but have little damage output and no buffs to speak of ,which makes us bottom barrel for groups.

Offensive stance adds DPS but does not add to our class - I can not solo out damage a 3 dot mob of my level with out buffs - I will more damage then i can dish out and have to run every time?

So what you say, you cant kill a 3 dot mob of your lvl when u solo -

well every other Protective tank can solo 3 dot mobs of their lvl, DK's can and Pally's can.

So a warrior has less dps in group in defensive stance the other tanks.

So a warrior has less group buffs then other tanks.

so a warrior can not solo as well as other tanks.

so warriors have a lot more down time then other tanks.

I could go on but the fact is thats already 4 strikes.

I sure hope class lead and Vangaurd get off this warrior is ment to be the most group dependtant class crud and do the right thing- BRING US UP TO SPEED WITH OTHER CLASSES.

side note warrior 39 - druid 38 - cleric 30 - bard 30 i have 2 accounts atm and have played almost every class without help of a guild really so i know what i am talking about when i say we are (warriors) bottom atm.

[Venge]

Originally Posted by Dajag

I can understand why people quit - This is a RPG game, when someone likes a style of play and a type of toon thats what they make.

They level that toon expecting to get what they where told they would get when they rolled that toon.

You dont expect to be the same but u do expect be on some sort of even ground with all the other classes.

You name your toon, you to some degree RP your toon (get into the role of the toon you made well u play) YOu attach to that toon.

Then after 1month or more of playing you realize HEY this toon suks it is in no way as good as other classes.

And rather then go through reroll and another month of play or more to get a new toon to lvl you say so-long and wait for the next game which might get it right.

Warriors do not deliver - They do not do enough damage over DK's and pally's (if any) to make them the damage kings.

Damage was the warriors selling point - In offensive stance we do do more damage (burst) but who tanks in offensive stance ?

In defensive stance we can hold argo but have little damage output and no buffs to speak of ,which makes us bottom barrel for groups.

Offensive stance adds DPS but does not add to our class - I can not solo out damage a 3 dot mob of my level with out buffs - I will more damage then i can dish out and have to run every time?

So what you say, you cant kill a 3 dot mob of your lvl when u solo -

well every other Protective tank can solo 3 dot mobs of their lvl, DK's can and Pally's can.

So a warrior has less dps in group in defensive stance the other tanks.

So a warrior has less group buffs then other tanks.

so a warrior can not solo as well as other tanks.

so warriors have a lot more down time then other tanks.

I could go on but the fact is thats already 4 strikes.

I sure hope class lead and Vangaurd get off this warrior is ment to be the most group dependtant class crud and do the right thing- BRING US UP TO SPEED WITH OTHER CLASSES.

side note warrior 39 - druid 38 - cleric 30 - bard 30 i have 2 accounts atm and have played almost every class without help of a guild really so i know what i am talking about when i say we are (warriors) bottom atm.

Got a kick out of this while at work.