Current Issues/Opinions on Warriors

[Persis]

I'd like to see peoples' opinions on warriors as they are now, what we'd like to see fixed, changed, or implemented.

Having been a tank in several MMOs previously, I find being a tank in this game more challenging, for one... but also unnecessarily awkward. There's a fine line Sigil needs to realize between making things more challenging, and just plain stupid.

I personally hope they do some serious tweaking to the way mobs are working, as far as friends adding along. I've pulled a single mob that was far away from any others, only to have adds come out of nowhere, through walls, etc and mow down the group. That's just awful and really needs to be fixed/re-evaluated/etc. There's no standard for pulling, body pulling doesn't seem to make a difference. No way to judge how many adds will come. I loathe this.

Leap attack, as in the other thread, most agree it needs -something- done to it. The jumping around wouldn't be so bad if it automatically turned and faced your character to the mob. The mechanics of this ability are currently awful.

I dislike not having an AE ability early on, when so many DPS classes get them. It's a hassle trying to pick up all the mobs when you have rangers and sorcerers going to town with the AE.

I think those are my biggest gripes at the moment.

[Kanevala]

The 20% Mitigation reduction in Offensive stance is a tad too ridiculous.

If you have 16% Mitigation from armor vs an even target, you'll have 0% in offensive.
If you have 21% Mit vs an even target, then you'll have 1% in offensive.

- The issue with Defensive stance triggering offensive finishers.
- Leap Attack obviously, as stated in the LA thread.

Those are my top 3 concerns currently.

[Cobalty2004]

Devastating Blow III has no animation and does not report any text for me.

[Iskiab]

Originally Posted by Kanevala

The 20% Mitigation reduction in Offensive stance is a tad too ridiculous.

If you have 16% Mitigation from armor vs an even target, you'll have 0% in offensive.
If you have 21% Mit vs an even target, then you'll have 1% in offensive.

- The issue with Defensive stance triggering offensive finishers.
- Leap Attack obviously, as stated in the LA thread.

Those are my top 3 concerns currently.

If we had miitgation in offensive stance we'd be too overpowered. Atm I'm a soloing machine so the reduction in mitigation is needed because of our high dps.

[Garbar]

Originally Posted by Kanevala

The 20% Mitigation reduction in Offensive stance is a tad too ridiculous.

If you have 16% Mitigation from armor vs an even target, you'll have 0% in offensive.
If you have 21% Mit vs an even target, then you'll have 1% in offensive.

- The issue with Defensive stance triggering offensive finishers.
- Leap Attack obviously, as stated in the LA thread.

Those are my top 3 concerns currently.

The 20% mitigation reduction in offensive stance is apparently just a "display bug." Thats comeing from Venge and the devs, so hopefully it will get fixed soon. The devs have known since late beta.

Defnesive stance triggering offensive Finishiers is anoying, but again its a graphics bug, if you dont click the finishers it wont send you into offensive stance but yes, its very anoying. ( seems to be kick does it the most )

And Yes, Leap attack is pritty crappy. I hope they remove it fully as they dont seem to want to improve it (No word so far from any dev or venge on LAttack other then its working as intended). IMO it should be akin to the shadowknight (put me to the back of the mob) but place us infront of the mob.

[Garbar]

Originally Posted by Persis

I'd like to see peoples' opinions on warriors as they are now, what we'd like to see fixed, changed, or implemented.

Having been a tank in several MMOs previously, I find being a tank in this game more challenging, for one... but also unnecessarily awkward. There's a fine line Sigil needs to realize between making things more challenging, and just plain stupid.

I personally hope they do some serious tweaking to the way mobs are working, as far as friends adding along. I've pulled a single mob that was far away from any others, only to have adds come out of nowhere, through walls, etc and mow down the group. That's just awful and really needs to be fixed/re-evaluated/etc. There's no standard for pulling, body pulling doesn't seem to make a difference. No way to judge how many adds will come. I loathe this.

Leap attack, as in the other thread, most agree it needs -something- done to it. The jumping around wouldn't be so bad if it automatically turned and faced your character to the mob. The mechanics of this ability are currently awful.

I dislike not having an AE ability early on, when so many DPS classes get them. It's a hassle trying to pick up all the mobs when you have rangers and sorcerers going to town with the AE.

I think those are my biggest gripes at the moment.

I dont understand alot of your post. " No way to judge how many adds will come. I loathe this. " - Depending on my level, I can tell the exact distance a mob needs to be away from another before I can pull. There are AFEW spots near structures etc where the mobs PATHING is abit screwy, but you are saying in general this happens alot ??? From my experances there only afew spots in dungeons/camps where this happens - And after you have pulled that area once and you forinstance see the mobs run LEFT and around a building to PATH to you.. next time pull them from the left side and they will run straight to you. I really suggest you /bug these AREAS ingame.

You say that Proximity agro doesnt make a difference???? This is the total opposite from what ive experanced so im not sure if we are playing the same game. Shooting a mob with my arrow adds a extra 3-4 meters on there agro range.

Early AOE? I dont need it or want it yet. Vanguard is about Teamwork and communication, If your grouping with AOE class's tell them if they AOE in dungeons with 4dot mobs they WILL die. I like that we dont get our aoe attack untill well after all the other class's who do get one do. Ive found in VG its ALLOT better to single target burn mobs down. Most healers can keep me up against 3-4 even con 4dot mobs, 4 Easy if there are 2 healers in the group.... But there mana will start going to down fast untill atleast 1 is dead and only 3 are hitting me, then it gets alot easyer... When theres only 2 left the healers can pritty much maintain there current mana while still keeping me alive atm, so we dont need AOE yet IMO.

Makes it all the better later on when we do get it. I prefer not getting EVERYTHING straight away and haveing nothing to look foward to later on accept upgrades of the same spell.

[Iskiab]

I agree with most of what you've written.

I also see no point in aoes and you're going to be disappointed when you get it. Have you guys never heard of crowd control? I think for the most part you guys just have to adjust to playing a new game. WoW while it is fun, it is an easy game so with very little depth and Vanguard is a deep game.

In beta when I was grouping I rarely used my aoe. It just wasn't worth it. It does damage and will break a mez. Instead what you need to do is control the number of mobs you're fighting to reduce their dps. Every offensive class (except maybe ranger) gets a crowd control ability. You need to get them to use it.

Psionicists - mez, charm, etc... they get the most
Bards - mez, charm, etc... almost as good as a psionicst
Rogues - 30 second stun spell they can cast on a mob
Sorcerer - 30 second sleep spell they can cast on a mob
Druids - root and at lvl 25 or so they get a silence
Necro - can off tank a mob with their pet
Monk - can off tank
Ranger - not sure, I guess they can kite a mob if you're in a bind

So here's what I do. Say you have a group of warrior, disciple, cleric, sorcerer, rogue and ranger. Communicate with your group before hand. Say you pull and 3 4 dot mobs come at you. You stay on the main mob and ignore the other 2. The sorcerer sleeps the mob on the right. The rogue stuns the mob on the left.

In this way you can survive the fight and focus on one mob. No one casts any aoes and you've isolated the one mob. Kill him, move onto the next, rinse and repeat. That's how you clear dungeons with multiple 4 dot pulls.

About leap attack. You're nuts if you don't use it... I'm able to solo even conned 3 dots because of this ability. While we aren't monks or disciples, we are a very good solo class because of this abililty. Learn how to use it and love it. If you don't like it already it's because you haven't learned how to use it properly yet.

[Persis]

Originally Posted by Garbar

I dont understand alot of your post. " No way to judge how many adds will come. I loathe this. " - Depending on my level, I can tell the exact distance a mob needs to be away from another before I can pull. There are AFEW spots near structures etc where the mobs PATHING is abit screwy, but you are saying in general this happens alot ??? From my experances there only afew spots in dungeons/camps where this happens - And after you have pulled that area once and you forinstance see the mobs run LEFT and around a building to PATH to you.. next time pull them from the left side and they will run straight to you. I really suggest you /bug these AREAS ingame.

I think the areas I've had the problems with are heavily bugged. No, it's not an all the time thing. It's very hard at this point in the game to discern what is a bug, and what is supposed to happen. Atleast for me anyway. Bug, or no bug, it needs fixing.

Originally Posted by Garbar

Early AOE? I dont need it or want it yet. Vanguard is about Teamwork and communication, If your grouping with AOE class's tell them if they AOE in dungeons with 4dot mobs they WILL die. I like that we dont get our aoe attack untill well after all the other class's who do get one do. Ive found in VG its ALLOT better to single target burn mobs down. Most healers can keep me up against 3-4 even con 4dot mobs, 4 Easy if there are 2 healers in the group.... But there mana will start going to down fast untill atleast 1 is dead and only 3 are hitting me, then it gets alot easyer... When theres only 2 left the healers can pritty much maintain there current mana while still keeping me alive atm, so we dont need AOE yet IMO.

I wish I lived in a perfect world where every group was full of highly competent people. But, I don't. So far my grouping experiences have been 'meh' at best. I'm happy if the group can so much as understand who to assist, let alone control their AoE, and use CC. I'm more than aware of -how- a group should ideally function, but it's not been my experience so far that they do. So from MY point of view, having an AE a bit earlier on would be nice, but I'll agree it's not necessary. Now that I'm getting more of a feel for tanking in this game, I'm finding it to honestly be easier than WoW. It's getting the other groupmates to do what they should be doing that's the problem.

As far as Leap Attack goes, I abuse the hell out of that skill. It's just highly annoying to be jumping around all over. It's not as bad once you get the stepping back a couple times down.

[Cobalty2004]

My biggest issues are (that are not already listed by the above posters):

Brutal Strike has too high an End cost for its damage.
Waylay should be non positional and do more damage with a reuse timer.
Let us use shield bash in offensive. (Or put it on the reaction bar, havent tested using it directly from my hotkeys)
Lack of a "good" ability to stop runners from aggroing other mobs. Give us a charge ability.
Change the Defensive single target command to evasive bonus.
Give us an ability that ups the chance to Parry. Like our Foeman line, but parry instead. Let them share the same timer as well.

[Gunnarr]

I'd like to see a "snare" of some sort to help out with runners and also to keep from getting kited in pvp. Maybe a hamstring or something of that nature to slow down the movement speed of a mob. Also I'd like to see us get out 1st whirlwind just a bit sooner.