Balance

[Dajag]

This word SUXs when it comes to MMOs and that single word has ruined more MMOs then any other word I know :evil:

I dont want balance between the classes I want Uniqueness.

I want each class to have something special , its calling card.

As a Warrior our calling card was to be our Damage :P

EQ2 was ruined when they balanced the classes.

I say we never use the word BALANCE and stick to our swords as warriors.

I dont want fancy buffs like a pally (or i would have played a pally)

I dont want trickery and dark magic like a DK (or I would have played a DK)

I WANT damage and lots of it I dont care if pallys have more mit or if they can heal :roll:

I want damage! I dont care if DK's can send their Opponents running in fear.

PLEASE dont ruin my Warrior with balance lets keep us the CONANS of the battle field.

[XeroKill]

I would agree except that in balance comes equality, and in uniqueness comes the opportunity for bias. There has to be some sort of balance otherwise certain classes will easily out pace other classes. I wish there was a different system in place for defining classes and what they do, but the unfortunate truth is there are really only 4 types of classes in any MMO.

1 - Tanks
2 - Healers
3 - Damage Dealers
4 - Utility (Debuffers and Buffers / CC)

The hard line to draw is how multiple classes within those 4 spheres pace each other. If one tank is superior at tanking, then there is little reason to have the other tanks in that category. They will always become the second choice, which isn't quite fair for people that want to play a class they really like. So in order to call all of the classes that fall under the "Tank" or "Protective Fighter" category tanks, they need to be able to perform the "core" roll of that title as well as any other. The same goes for DPS, if Rogues are the unbridled kings of DPS, then what point is there in playing the other types of DPS. When contending for raid / group slots, and a Rogue is present, they will most likely take that spot... unless there is some equality.

Now that is the real rub. It is really hard to keep the core abilities in line, while giving the classes enough diversity so that they aren't all the same in essence. The only way they can really do it is to give all 3 available tanks the ability to perform their primary function well, so well in fact there is little reason to choose one over the other. Then you have to give each of them a secondary role that is different from each other but is also "balanced" so that one tank is still not chosen over others.

It should always be a case of current group / raid make-up to determine what is needed. Let us say our group needs a tank and we are really short on DPS because we have two healers. Well since Warriors are the "DPS Tanks" then it would not be wise to take a Paladin because we have plenty of healing and we need the DPS. If you have two debuffers and no healer, well a Paladin would be best because with highly debuffed mobs his healing should be sufficient. If you are lacking a debuffer then a Dread Knight would be best because heals are covered, DPS is fine, but the mobs won't be debuffed.

This is the way it is supposed to be now, and only time will tell how well these lines will define each class. I for one agree that Warriors should be the most offensive of the Tanks, while the Paladin is the healing tank, and the Dread Knight is the debuffer. As long as there is "relative" balance between how effective their secondaries are then there should be no real issues. If one of the secondaries proves to be more useful than others, then there is a problem, and that is the whole purpose behind balance.

Now there is a difference between "balance" and "perceived balance" and that is where the real problem comes in. But that is whole other debate in and of itself, which I would be happy to talk about, but this reply is getting a bit too wordy.

[Garbar]

The problem with that is, I would rather warrior was the best at takeing dammage of the 3 current protective fighters. I would also argue that Warrior should do the most melee dps, BUT imo Dreadknight should do MORE overall dammage then the warrior, but have slightly less defences. Im sure there are lots of people who think this way, and im sure theres as many people who think differently.

I dont see where people get the "As a Warrior our calling card was to be our damage." Sure they've stated that they dont want class's to just have one funtion and be able to contribute to the group while not performing there primary role, and they said that the Warrior would be able to switch to offensive stance and contribute meaningful DPS, but thats true of dreadknight aswell, and paladin in a similar funtion with there heals & dps.

If there was no thought for balance then it could end up that warriors do so much dammage that no other class could draw agro from them =-0 or anything like that, and people who are playing DK/Pal would find it impossible to find groups and they wouldnt enjoy vanguard.

[Dajag]

:shock: My eyes hurt from all that gibberish.

all tanks can take a hit (platemail)

Pallys buff, kill undead and heal 8)

DKs debuff, DoT and scare people 8)

Warriors ahh well what the hell do we do ? Damage ! weapon damage.

And if this is not our calling card please tell me what is.

Because with all this balance we are losing our identity and soon we will not have a place in groups.

And another thing RAIDS are not the main concern here all tanks will be fine in raids.

[Garbar]

" And another thing RAIDS are not the main concern here all tanks will be fine in raids. "

Why do you think that? There must be balance for that to happen, i know *nerfs* suck once you've put alot of time into a certian playstyle but its for the good of the game.


Warriors ahh well wha the hell do we do ? Id say Agro control, stuns (something thats usualy the pallys domain), battlecrys, commands - Group agro reduceing abilities and dammge buffs for the group and ofcourse dammage (While NOT tanking)

[XeroKill]

Originally Posted by Dajag

:shock: My eyes hurt from all that gibberish.

all tanks can take a hit (platemail)

Pallys buff, kill undead and heal 8)

DKs debuff, DoT and scare people 8)

Warriors ahh well what the hell do we do ? Damage ! weapon damage.

And if this is not our calling card please tell me what is.

Because with all this balance we are losing our identity and soon we will not have a place in groups.

And another thing RAIDS are not the main concern here all tanks will be fine in raids.

:roll: My brain hurts from llack of logic.

I am not even going to try and debate with you, I can see it would not matter.

[Dajag]

IN RAIDS the main Tank will be buffed to the max and in defensive stance.

In Raids Heals will flow in a constant stream - healers are always the main concern in raids.

In Raids, in the end, all tanks will be fine (platemail).

In most Raids you have an off-tank to help.

In raids gear always holds to be the most important stat for a MT tank and all main tanks will be chosen by whom has the better gear.


OMG if you think that this list abilities will be fun to play? You my friend can have it this would make the Warrior the epitome of boring!

Agro control, stuns (something thats usualy the pallys domain), battlecrys, commands - Group agro reduceing abilities and dammge buffs for the group and ofcourse dammage (While NOT tanking)

Argo control?

And if holding Argo is my main attribute then u can keep it because for ONE that would mean there is no BALANCE among core tanking abilities NO one tank should hold Argo better then another TANK!

PLUS at 1:1 ratio, damage to hate, that would mean we would be at the bottom of the argo holding chain because we as WARRIORS cant do anything good just melon collie.

I want someone to tell me what our specialty is as a Warrior what do we excel at please tell me :shock:

stuns (something thats usualy the pallys domain

What we have like 3 stun lines that hardly stun and will not work against epic style mobs I am sure. ops:

battlecrys, commands :shock:

We can have one going at a time so what the rest of the battle we just sit there?

dammge buffs for the group

Oh like this will make a difference EVER! And in a raid yeah I can see it now HEY take the WARRIOR he has a group damage buff :shock: lmao.

[Garbar]

"In raids gear always holds to be the most important stat for a MT tank and all main tanks will be chosen by whom has the better gear. "

Where did you get that from ??


"OMG if you think that this list abilities will be fun to play". Your list is JUST Dammage. My list includes dammage and other abilities...

How come you responded too the first 3 but didnt comment about our ability to lower our groups agro or a certian persos agro?

[vaeine]

sounds like someone should go play a WoWior on a different game.


A good fighter is more than just being all about damage

[Dajag]

You don’t get it do you :roll:

Yes a warrior is more then damage but what is its defining ROLL please tell ooh great master of who should play wow.

WHAT does a warrior do great? What do we do? Tell me?

What can a warrior do that will set us apart from other Tanks what?

Do we buff better? Do we get argo better? Do we mit better? NO!

What do we do better? When the WARRIOR class was presented it was presented as the Damage tank which was nice. But now we are the good at nothing tank

WHY is it when someone has nothing intelligent to say they say go play wow?