Duel-Weild vs. Two-Handers

[Zornoctus]

Most games make 2-handers and DW weps basically equal each other out for DPS, which is fine, but kind of vanilla. What would you guys think about different effects for auto-attacking with different kinds of weapons?

For example, to keep it simple ill just use 2-handers and DW weps, you could of course make this more complicated by adding differences between slashing piercing and blunt weapons. But say a 2-handed weapon causes massive damage instantly, burst damage basically. While DW causes the same amount of damage over time, but through bleeding damage, and possibly attack speed loss on the enemy ect.

EXAMPLE

2h 10 seconds of combat, 5 second swing speed

105 damage
145 damage
---------------
250 damage

DW 10 seconds of combat 2.5 second swing speed

25 damage main-hand | 10 damage off-hand
20 damage main-hand | 20 damage off-hand
25 damage main-hand | 10 damage off-hand
25 damage main-hand | 15 damage off-hand
-----------------------------------------------------
95 damage main-hand | 55 damage off-hand

150 damage instantly + 100 damage bleed over 10 seconds

Since mobs dont live forever, the DW is going to come out to less DPS so lets add some bonuses to warrent this.

If the mob bleeds for more than 10 seconds, he loses 1/2% attack speed and 1% movement speed every 5 seconds thereafter.

From what I have seen fights last about 3 minutes or so on average. So I beleive that they would both have their advantages. Obviously Im not looking at this from all angles, feel free to tell me how dumb the idea is, just throwing it out there

:P

[Warbreed]

thats if all strikes hit. Usualy dualwield wins out because you have more chances to strike an opponnent. In basic terms you get one swing with 2h per attack where you get two strikes of half the damage per attack with duel wield.
1 attack 2h = 1 strike for 100dmg total
vs
1 attack dw = 2 strikes for 100dmg total

Over time you will get more dmg out of the dual wield because of misses ect depending on acuracy, speed, skill and damage of weapons.

But lets put all things on a basic playing field where the 2h weapon in twice as damaging and 2 slower than a dw combo.

Over 100 attack time period lets put acuracy at 50%

So with the the 2h im going to hit the opponent 50 times

with the duel wield im going to hit 100 times

now here is where it gets complicated because everystrike you get a chance to critical, spell proc or anything special. With the DW you have a greater chance to do those special things with more potential to do more damage or cause more actions toward the enemy.

If vanguard is able to keep all things equal then it shouldnt matter because each style would have mitigating on the bonus or penalty side of the house. It should be personal style really and truly, im a person that loves the big honking axe or sword over two rapiers or scimitars.

[MacGilly]

There are other bonuses to using large weapons, at least theoretically. An excellent example of this would be stuns. The impact from the greater force of the large weapon should result in frequent stunning of the enemy, or at least disorientation. There is also a greater chance of landing a debilitating blow, i.e. - broken arm, shoulder, or leg.

[ellestil]

Check out this thread also.

http://vanguardfighters.net/phpnuke/...h light=#3961

Some good discussions were had there.

Ellestil

[Kaldaan]

I think that idea is great. As long as I can duel wield and still be effective, nay, use any wep (as warriors should) and be effective,

Then, ill be happy.

Kaldaan Warblade
"I keep a sharp sword, but an even sharper mind"

[FulgoreWinds]

All this also depends on if your on PvPing or PvE. also depends on what class you would be pvping against.

For Casters you can either

A) DW and interrupt their casting because your are hitting so fast (plus your procs)

B) 2H and hit them for big hits because of their lower armor class.

For Melee

For me 2H is better because usually you are jousting.

[Zoripos]

Skills or Abilities could also play a roll in this, if they make different sets for your weapon of choice.

[Kaldaan]

I would like to see one of the duel wielded swords go on the back and one in the sheath. Some games make double sheaths for dw's that hang on the hips and look ridiculous because of either the length of the sword, armor, or character build. I'm sure whatever Sigil uses looks awesome and it is probably too late to change anything like that, but the thought of being able to select where you want to hold your wep when not in hand, is amazing.

...just a thought.

Kaldaan Warblade

[Trilok]

I personally like both dual wield and 2h. Though I have only heared the dps side here but dont forget the risposte eighter.

When using DW you will strike more for less damage though you will also have a greater chance to be risposted as you hit more often. Therefor I like 2h alot too as it does some nice damage but also gets you less rispostes and thus less damage.

Also as I'm gonna be a dwarf I guess I will have to work with the 2h axe again :P

[greneherb]

If using two equivalent setups, one a DW and one a 2H'er the accuracy of the character won't play into how much dmg you do with one as opposed to the other.

Let's say both setups do 100 DPS against a significantly lower level monster (i.e. nearly 100% accuracy). Then when fighting a monster of equivalent level you have say 50% accuracy.

DW = 100DPS x 50% accuracy = 50DPS
2H'er = 100 DPS x 50% accuracy = 50DPS

Even though it seems like when you miss with the 2h'er you're losing out on a lot of dmg because of how hard they hit, the fact of the matter is when using DW you just miss more often and they equate to basically the same difference.

One advantage of a 2h'er is that if the enemy has some form of damage shield (thorns, flame shield, or even riposte is just a form of a dmg shield) the slower heavier hits of the 2h'er will lessen the amount of damage the hero is taking.

Another advantage of a 2h'er is when the opponents have a form of dmg mitigation where they reduce all dmg they take by a set amount (dmg soak). Say for instance if a creature reduces every hit it takes by 15 points. Less hits for more dmg reduce the effectiveness of that type of mitigation as opposed to a DW combo that strikes very frequently but can barely do enough to get past the dmg soak. If however mitigation is more of a percentage based reduction of dmg, then either combination would essentially be the same overall dmg per given time.

Weapon effects, or proccesses, can be done one of two different ways. In EQ1 and EQ2 the effects that could proc off a weapon went off as a frequency based off time. In this case weapon effects would fire off say between 2 and 6 times per minute and the rate of proc'ing was strictly based on time (and whatever frequency factor they built into the weapon) and nothing to do with the delay of the weapon or how hasted the character was. In WoW certain effects like a rogues poison and some weapons procs were based on a percentage chance per swing, so faster weapons or more haste (if WoW even had haste, IDK) allowed players to tool their characters specifically for better proc effetiveness.

The advantage of DW is that either of the two ways procs can work, by using weapon in the primary and off hands, the character will proc more frequently than if they just had a single weapon (provided they don't build in a mechanism for certain weapons that have just an outrageous proc frequency like the cleric summoned hammers in EQ1 PoP era and later). The character also has the advantage that they can specifically tool different procs for different situations by using different weapons. The more frequently your weapons proc the more reliably you can count on them to proc off the effects you need.

Another thing I can think of for whether or not to DW or use a 2h'er when DPS'ing is for the stats. If the gear tends to have lots of stats on them, then ussually 2h'er tend to have extremely good stats for a single item but they tend to fall a bit short compared to adding up the stats of two equivalently teir'ed 1h'ers.

The last thing I can think of for choosing a style is the cost. Sometimes it's a lot cheaper (either via in-game currency or guild raid points) to just pick up one good solid weapon (a 2h'er) and be done as far as a DPS'ing setup. Other people will find that they would just much rather have the look and feel, or even the analized game mechanic effects of a DW combo and will go ahead and pay the cost of having a good DW combo. Still others (like me) tend to find that different situations call for different mechanics and having a bag or two full of weapons gives you the diversity that you need when playing and exploring a dynamic MMO.