Which class will be the best MT for raids?

[Ezrael]

And thats the exact mentality the devs want to get rid of, they don't want there to be a best tank for anything, they want all 4 to be viable tanks.

All 4 to be as desirable as the others.

[Kell]

Honestly, I don't want a monopoly to tanking as a warrior. The potential to switch jobs with other heavy fighters from time to time will allow me to play different rolls in party, I think thats great personally. Wether they put me as offensive tank, main tank or just dps I don't mind doing either one. But on the other hand doing the same one all the time might get repedative (even though I will often get frustrated when I see people do a halfassed job while tanking lol).

[Mumnoch]

Hello everyone I'm new to the forums but I'm a very old tank hehe. It speaks volumes about Vanguard as a whole that there is already site's such as this out there in support of it. Little background info on myself:

I was a tank in eq1 for 6 years.
EQ2 I have been a tank since the game released, orginally a zerker then rerolled on the pvp server as a guardian. I've raid tanked 90% of the content and love it. Tanking's in my blood as the saying goes :wink:

Vanguard will be making a grave mistake (one that EQ2 already has made) if they try and make it so that all the tanking classes tank about the "same". Even if they tried to make it so that all the tank's could "situationally" tank best it would be a mistake. Our class isn't like the other classes, true tanks make tanks for one purpose and one purpose only...to keep the mobs attention and live long enough for their group to totally destroy it.

To try and make it so that all the different tank's are equal in "tanking" and yet at the same time make it so they are unique from each other will end with all of us having a choice between watered down version's of the same class. EQ1 had it right imo. 1 true tank, with a scattering of some decent "off-tanks". This keeps things simple, there is no compitition and crying on forum's concerning abilities/gear/buffs between the classes. There is no one making a dps styled tank believing that even though they do all this DPS they should still be able to take a hit and hold the aggro like their counter-parts. Keep it simple. Expand on each type of tank sure, but do not make the mistake of blurring the lines between which is the best tank. You will end up with the DK, War, Inq, Pally all being the same class with their abilities named differently and that will truely make everyone who plays any of these classes bored, combative towards eachother and frustrated.


Just my humble opinion though.

[Ezrael]

I think the Sigil devs are a little more capable than the SoE ones for EQ2

EQ2 was a complete copy paste game, lacked diversity in pretty much every area and class differentiation was a joke.

They also made the fatal mistake of trying to balance mitigation vs avoidance tanking.

In Vanguard its 4 plate tanks which will be a lot easier to balance and address imbalance in trying to make all 4 viable tanks for as much content as possible.

Though Id love to see some encounters that only one of the 4 can tank, for all 4 classes, and an encounter that needs all 4 tanking at once etc

[Iskiab]

I think Vanguard is going to get it right. Maybe I should rephrase... I think I know what they're doing and hope they get it right

I believe Warriors will be the standard MT. That being said, each class will have mobs and situations where their skills will make them the best tank. The reason why I think Warriors will be the best MT is by looking at Palladins abilities. Little is known but if you look at their defensive aura it buffs mitigation for group. This is the buff they get instead of defensive stance. So palladins could become buffers for the MT in raids and since they can do that you're better off sticking the warrior in the MT slot.

I also think what vanguard is trying to do is make it so there are situations where you'd want each kind of tank. In EQ2 the differences between the tanks weren't pronounced so they all felt the same. In Vanguard raiding I'll bet the way it works is if you're fighting an undead mob you'll want a pally tanking because of their bonuses. If it's a caster mob you'll want an inquisator tanking. Dreadknight I'm not sure. Otherwise you'll want a warrior tanking. In this way every class gets to step up to MT but you can keep the classes different. In this way you don't have to balance the classes for all situations and can have diversity.

[Iskiab]

So has anyone else studied the warrior vs palladin skill lists? I took at look but am not sure how it works in the real game but some things make me think palladin will be the best MT.

Palladins get 2 rescues. While warriors get 2 as well one reduces our mitigation.
Palladins get 2 mitigation buffs. Warriors get zip but we get a defensive stance. I'm not sure if Palladins do.
Palladins get a hp buff.

But here's what else is weird. Warriors get an AoE and AoE taunt. Palladins get neither! I thought this odd.

So from just glancing at it I'd say palladins are the best single target tank and warriors are better vs multiple targets. Think this is how raiding will be split? On another note took a look at the dreadknights. Just 1 taunt. Ouch, that really sucks. They have abilities that increase dreadful countenance instead but I'm not sure if that's equivalent to a taunt or not.

[ellestil]

The way it stands right now in beta, the difference between warriors and paladins is that warriors obtain an advantage in hate management. Not a huge advantage, but its there. Paladins (later on) get a small defensive advantage with abilities like wards(self and group) and increases to mitigation.

So it goes like this atm

Hate management
1.Warrior
2. Paladin
3. Dreadknight

Mitigation abilities
1. Paladin
2. Dreadknight
3. Warrior

DPS (melee)
1. Warrior
2. Dreadknight
3. Paladin (not bad dps even though third in line)

DPS (casting)
1. Dk
2. Pal-situational advantages
3. Warrior has no spells, uses ranged weapons

Crowd Control
All classes get some kind of CC, warriors are stun based and have the longest stuns, paladins are some stun and some mez, DK's are stun, mez, fear (but fear can get adds if mob runs towards other mobs).


So, paladins gain more defense but will be better on single target mobs (and excel vs undead ones). Warriors have the most hate gain potential and excel vs mutli-mob encounters. DK's are the lowest hate gainers, defensively they are ok. DK's are due for an overhaul however, so things may change with them.

Ellestil

[Iskiab]

Are the palladin mitigation and ward buffs self only or can they be cast on someone else? If they're self only then palladins look to be the best MTs. If they can be cast on someone else then you can have a warrior tank with a palladin buffing him.

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[ellestil]

Some are self, some are group. The pali defensive stance ups all group members defense. There are some abilities that temporarily raise just the pali's defense. There is also a group short term ability that makes the group invulnerable for a short time period. Paladins can MT as well as OT effictively. Paladins also get a stance that greatly reduces undead damage done at them, the group also gets this buff, but its effect is to a lesser extent.

That said, like I mentioned, paladins are good at single target encounters, whereas warriors hold hate better with multi-encounters.

[Iskiab]

If that's the case, I don't see a need for warriors in raids. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Palladins have all the good buffs and only slightly worse aggro holding abilities. I've also heard that palladins will be getting their aggro abilities increased to be on par with warriors.

So there's a case for having a warrior tank with a palladin buffing the warrior. However why not just have the palladin tank? Aoe aggro is better on a warrior but does that really merit giving them a raidslot? One thing I'm sure about, warriors having better dps does not. You'll always be better off bringing a real dps class instead of raiding with an extra warrior.

I haven't progressed too far in beta to really know. But from looking at all the abilities and strengths and weaknesses of all the classes this is what it looks like. What am I missing?

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