VF - Being passed over for Paly and DK's

[Apsu]

Originally Posted by Dajag

- I can not solo out damage a 3 dot mob of my level with out buffs -

so a warrior can not solo as well as other tanks.

[Mortezzah]

Originally Posted by Apsu

I don't know who you think you're speaking for bud, but wth rolls a warrior to solo? If you admire those other classes so much -- then roll one, they're right there on your char select screen the same as the rest of us.

You roll a warrior to tank -- period. Please either stop asking to be another class, or at least put a disclaimer in the bottom of your posts saying that you in no way speak for people who play warriors in any mmorpg.

The point is he can't solo "like other tanks".

All the tanks should solo relatively the same and group relatively the same. Same, but with their own unique flavor.

OR

If one class is the WORST solo'er, they should be the BEST in groups.

However, BEST in groups = bad design = EQ.

So, instead, you make them similarly power in groups, similarly powered when solo.

That is the problem he is partially calling out. Tanks are relatively similar in groups. They are not relatively similar when solo/duo/trio (the more the # of people in the group, the less the disparity).

[velzevul]

Originally Posted by Mortezzah

The point is he can't solo "like other tanks".

All the tanks should solo relatively the same and group relatively the same. Same, but with their own unique flavor.

OR

If one class is the WORST solo'er, they should be the BEST in groups.

However, BEST in groups = bad design = EQ.

So, instead, you make them similarly power in groups, similarly powered when solo.

That is the problem he is partially calling out. Tanks are relatively similar in groups. They are not relatively similar when solo/duo/trio (the more the # of people in the group, the less the disparity).

ehhh negative, tanks are NOT similar in groups at ALL.

Paladin has a lot of trouble tanking multiple mobs, has no trouble to keep 1 mob against reckless dps, same time as warrior can tank 1 against semi-reckless dps, can hold 3 with semi-careful dps and 5 and more with very careful dps. DRK can tank 2-3 with semi-careful dps, has trouble holding a mob against reckless dps, but can offtank infinetely a mob nearly without heals (very useful when you got a boss with 2 adds and DRK offtanks a boss while group kills adds)

[Mortezzah]

Originally Posted by velzevul

ehhh negative, tanks are NOT similar in groups at ALL.

Paladin has a lot of trouble tanking multiple mobs, has no trouble to keep 1 mob against reckless dps, same time as warrior can tank 1 against semi-reckless dps, can hold 3 with semi-careful dps and 5 and more with very careful dps. DRK can tank 2-3 with semi-careful dps, has trouble holding a mob against reckless dps, but can offtank infinetely a mob nearly without heals (very useful when you got a boss with 2 adds and DRK offtanks a boss while group kills adds)

I disagree (was difficult to understand your post).

All tanks have difficulty with aggro control against multiple mobs.

All tanks can hold aggro relatively well against a single mob.

DRK can't easily tank using lifetaps/shields without significant healing from a healer against a nasty mob... if that is what you were implying.

[Pudsley]

Originally Posted by Apsu

I don't know who you think you're speaking for bud, but wth rolls a warrior to solo? If you admire those other classes so much -- then roll one, they're right there on your char select screen the same as the rest of us.

You roll a warrior to tank -- period. Please either stop asking to be another class, or at least put a disclaimer in the bottom of your posts saying that you in no way speak for people who play warriors in any mmorpg.

I'd buy that explanation Apsu if this was like "any mmorpg", but it isn't.

I've always rolled awarrior because I tank, it's what I do, and Warriors have always been the best at tanking, well, Vanguard doesn't subscribe to that theory, they made it perfectly clear that Warriors would not be superior tanks, so....

If we're going to be equal tanks why is it so wrong to ask for some of the other things?

Solo ability (somewhat), better utilisation in groups.

I've never been one to settle for an ok class, if the class doesn't feel special, if it doesn't feel like there is something this class can do that the others in the same archetype can't do as well then it's a failure.

[Apsu]

lol I'm going to delete my post, I think it's only appropriate as it is obviously I who do not speak for warriors.

You all want to solo, heal, kite, nuke, invis and lull.

I'm deleting my post because people asking for those things actually do seem to be speaking better for this community, and my post has been quoted so people can read it still if they like. But I will continue to speak for myself in that I made my warrior to tank, and will still argue against becoming a utility/soloing class. I like group dependency in that it forces me to keep tanking and be the best I can be at it.

[Chagas]

Originally Posted by Apsu

You all want to solo, heal, kite, nuke, invis and lull.

...I made my warrior to tank, and will still argue against becoming a utility/soloing class. I like group dependency in that it forces me to keep tanking and be the best I can be at it.

There's nothing wrong with group INTER-dependency Apsu. Unfortunately, while thigs have changed slightly for the better, the other classes do not require groups to accomplish things.

I don't know what other people have experienced, but my old group , prior to our last "fix" didn't need a warrior. Any warrior. I had fair DPS, but I couldn't tank (remember, this is in the past) as good as the DK, or control agro like the DK.

Now, post patch, I can tank, but, I'm levels below the rest of the group, so I'm not as good a tank as the DK who's higher. But why? Here's the thing I think everone who's talking about utility and solo-ability is talking about:
IF my group isn't on, they all have Real Life things to do, as a warrior, there isn't squat I can do solo that isn't really an abject waste of time. On the other hand, if I'm not on, the group has a reliable tank and each of the other members in the group can solo to gain XP.

Group dependancy is fine, as long as the OTHER classes also need to group to accomplish stuff. The way things still stand tho, wars can't really CHOOSE how to spend their time, no group, no appreciable XP gain.

I rolled a DK just to play when no one else was on - and I gotta say, I've made levels in a third of the time it took me on the War. Can you honestly say that that's cool?

Aside from the solo question there's the whole group utility / off-tank issue. My friends play DK's and Pallys I should be able to group with them and contribute something to the group - 8 second "commands" are just crap.

I'm fine if you don't give me somthing called a "spell" that's cool, I understand the whole warriors don't cast spells argument, but for F's sake give me some abilities that are noticeable and not on assinine timers. Abilities that a warrior could reasonable expect to have - it's been a long day, I can't think of any lol.

It's just that as things stand, I'm damn well dissapointed in my warrior. I also don't think I'd be having so much of these feelings if race didn't have as big an impact as it turned out to have. In beta, and even through release, the races where pretty much balanced (cept for the dumbass woodelf ability to run like a little girl) Mechanics were changed, and made the choices many of us made early in the game - which had been at the very worst NOT BAD choices - pretty crappy choices. I'm sure I'd be happier with my warrior if he wasn't human.

I'm babbling. But it doesn't matter, since no one who devs seems to be reading these posts anyway.

Dissilusioned in Detroit
Lol

[Venge]

And I heard people feel our dps is too much? We can contrinute a fair amount of dps. In fact much more than paladin/dk. Neither Paladin nor DK can help assist the dps of a group like the warrior. Bar none.

[Chagas]

Originally Posted by Venge

In fact much more than paladin/dk. Neither Paladin nor DK can help assist the dps of a group like the warrior. Bar none.

/sigh.

Woot Go 8 seconds of DPS... Wonder Twin Powers... Activa--- Oops missed it, nevermind.

[Venge]

8 seconds of dps? Not all forms of "utility" comes from buffs.