Example combat round

[TheDrunkenDwarf]

Oloh posted this information on the Fires of Heaven forums. It gives a great example of how melee attacks (openers, bridges, defensive specials, etc...) are tied to your weapon delay.

...your specials, at least for the warrior and for the other melees that I have played, are tied to your weapon delay.

So, here is an example combat round.

1. I walk up to a critter, and lead off with a damage chain opener (part of a chain), the attack is immediate, hits the mob, and now I start planning for my next round of combat. If I have a 4 second weapon, then I have 4 seconds to plan.

2. I glance at the mobs queue, and see that he is doing a claw attack, his normal attack. No worries, so I click the bridge to my damage chain to advance the chain. I click this one second in. Bridge lands at the end of 4 seconds, the bridge lands, next round.

3. I absently mindedly click the finisher to the chain, and then glance at the mobs queue, oh shit, he is doing devour. The finisher is queued up to finish at the end of my round. So I quickly break off my chain and I queue up a defensive special. Luckilly, my defensive special landed first, then his devour attack landed, so i mitigated most of its damage. Next round.

4. Because I have fought frogs before, I know they generally dont do devour for a few rounds after doing one, so I dont have to worry about that for a while, so I start a chain that will allow me to do more damaging attacks for a few rounds. I load up an opener in second 2, and in second 4, it lands.

This is why i used the term ice skating in my original review. Its not button mashing as much as its gliding along making decisions. Make more sense? Again, this isnt all of combat, this just establishes the framework of the melee system.

Thoughts?

[Zenya]

Weapon dmg/delay combo has taken a whole new meaning. No longer will we be looking at the best dps on our preferred weapons, but delay by itself is important. This might actually add a new dimension to individuality even within one class. As things seem right now, I'll probably have different weapons with different delays in my backpack/saddlebags to be as versatile as possible, my choices will be determined by the mobs I'm fighting. When the devs compared combat to chess they certainly weren't kidding!

All in all, really interesting stuff.

[BigGino]

Obviously slower weapons have an advantage because you have more time to react, but will faster weapons have an advantage as well? If you hit you defensive stance buf whatever will a faster weapon cause it to take effect faster, raising the chance you get it in before the mob?
Oh god, and does that meen if its to fast you might be on the next round by the time the mob hits you?

Much to think about, If this was the case the best weapon for each player would probably be the fastest one that he or she could handle. Pretty cool stuff.

"I see your shwartz is as big as mine, but can you handle it"

[Lightning]

I suspect faster weapons will have the same advantage they do in other MMOs, that for the same dps and a faster weapon, a miss matters less than it does on a slow weapon. The difference now is a slow weapon has an advantage over faster if you can't handle the reaction times.

[Eclipse]

Ok here's the run-down as I see it.

Slow weapon, let's assume from the almighty Oloh's example: 4 second delay weapon. So you have 4 seconds per round to make your decisions. Adversely, this also means you only get to land an attack or ability every 4 seconds. So far I haven't been using any riddles, this is all straightforward.

BigGino wrote: Obviously slower weapons have an advantage because you have more time to react, but will faster weapons have an advantage as well?

Well, think about it...4 seconds seems like a ton of time to make your decisions, but really it isn't. With so many decisons to make, and so much to pay attention to, this is really a paltry amount of time. Oloh is breaking it down into its most simple form, it will often be quite a bit more chaotic (Oh, how I love chaos!) and quick. So then yes, there is a comparitive advantage with a slow weapon in the sense that you have a longer time frame to make your decisions. But it is not an absolute advantage, because now think about a faster weapon...

If your weapon is fast, say...2 second delay, what does that mean for you in the same situation? Well, you've cut your time in half. Prepare to tear your hair out, as decisions fly past at an alarming rate. But this also means that you will be able to chain in, bridge and finish in approximately 6 seconds instead of 12. So the comparitive advantage goes to the faster weapon in regards to skill, and attack chains.

The onus is on each player to decide what they can handle for speed. If you find you can make all decisions with plenty of time to spare with a 4 second delay weapon...then switch to a faster weapon. If you find 2-3 second delay is much too fast, and you can't get in all your attacks and defenses efficiently, then go with a slower, beefier weapon. I see a slower weapon being easier to play with than a faster one, but for those who can handle the speed of a fast weapon, I believe the advantages are obvious.

-Eclipse

[Metatron]

I worry about rangers, rogues, and monks using weapons with delays in the 1.5 range. Talk about battle spam

[Lightning]

Originally Posted by Metatron

I worry about rangers, rogues, and monks using weapons with delays in the 1.5 range. Talk about battle spam

Although one advantage is that when an intercept opportunity comes up, they won't have to queue for long to capitalise on it.

[Xabassis]

i don't think it will really be an issue on the delay at all, i believe they will be smart and make it hard for newer players to access quick weapons (1-3 sec rounds ) so that you just *grow* into your character.... i remember back in the day when i started EQ i had my hands full just figuring out which monster i could attack safely.... now i just run around clicking and looking, then press my handy '6' key ( bow ) and sling an arrow then run back when i find an appropriate target...

the idea will most likely to be to grow into your character so that by the time you are able to attain a fast weapon, you will be making decisions absent mindedly, and when an opportunity opens up you will just need to have the approrpiate reaction time to get in the specific offensive you need :P ..

im guessing, anyways.... because they have to target the general population, and the 'general' population won't be able to make split second decisions unless they grow into their char :shock:

just my opinion

[Marcus]

Well the monster has a delay in its attack too. So one would think that with a faster weapon I could queue more things since my attacks "Go off" at a faster rate.


From what I understand with a faster weapon I could: Opener, bridge, bridge, defensive, bridge, finsher, defensive. In the time the monster hits me only twice with attacks forcing me to use a defensive mode.

I don't know...but this seems like an interesting system and I hope they implement it properly. Could be a revolutionary change.

[Lord Semaj]

The slower weapons are also getting a high damage value. Using a two-hander might be much better than a faster weapon OFFENSIVELY. Offensive Fighters that dual wield rely on their fast bridges and chains to do damage, but their skills at defending might suffer for it. Think about. A tank using a heavy blade to block an incoming blow is going to be much more successful than a rogue using a dagger. So defensively, the slower weapons might provide more bonus while the faster ones provide more options. The same offensively. The faster ones provide more comboes while the slower ones hit harder overall.

The devs said similar in another post, where they said a warrior might want to have out his slow weapon to block a powerful enemy's attack.