Stats

[TheDrunkenDwarf]

This information is taken from an interview that Silky Venom did with Darrin McPherson.

The adventure sphere has six attributes: strength, dexterity, constitution, agility, wisdom, and intelligence. Each of these attributes will have some effect on each class, so you may see unusual attribute allocation, like warriors focusing on intelligence to enhance their perception.

Looks like a pretty standard attribute list... but what is new is that it looks like all the attributes will be useful to some degree.

[Eclipse]

I love the fact that all tanks will not have to be cut from the same cloth.

I have ALWAYS pondered the difference between a good tank and an amazing tank. The amazing tank usues unorthodox techniques and uses them to perfection.

Put this in RL terms (ugh, I usually hate referring to real events for an MMO, but here goes...) In mideaval times, what do you think made the difference between a soldier, and a hero?

To me, the soldier isn't altogether a rocket-scientist, he has some good skills, is strong, confident, but lacks something. That something is the hero factor.

To me, a hero needs to be smarter, and not necessarily stronger, than his foes. Doesn't necessarily have more endurance(health), but is more agile, and very perceptive. Knows himself inside and out and often uses his intelligence to win the battle.

I have always 'half-wished' that intelligence would be needed for every class. Those who didn't take intelligence would be great, have more health, more strength...but in the end, they're just a soldier.

I think 98% of the players who go into VG think the only way to tank is constitution. I hope to find out that dexterity, intelligence and agility make more of a difference. And, I know it sounds like I am describing a different class, but I still believe this would make for a good tank. That being said, you need a high amount of health to tank effectively, but like I stated previously, the Inquisitor to me suggests that I will be able to go different routes as a tank than the norm.

That's what I hope anyway.

-Eclipse

[Tudana]

Originally Posted by Eclipse

I love the fact that all tanks will not have to be cut from the same cloth.

I have ALWAYS pondered the difference between a good tank and an amazing tank. The amazing tank usues unorthodox techniques and uses them to perfection.

Put this in RL terms (ugh, I usually hate referring to real events for an MMO, but here goes...) In mideaval times, what do you think made the difference between a soldier, and a hero?

To me, the soldier isn't altogether a rocket-scientist, he has some good skills, is strong, confident, but lacks something. That something is the hero factor.

To me, a hero needs to be smarter, and not necessarily stronger, than his foes. Doesn't necessarily have more endurance(health), but is more agile, and very perceptive. Knows himself inside and out and often uses his intelligence to win the battle.

I have always 'half-wished' that intelligence would be needed for every class. Those who didn't take intelligence would be great, have more health, more strength...but in the end, they're just a soldier.

I think 98% of the players who go into VG think the only way to tank is constitution. I hope to find out that dexterity, intelligence and agility make more of a difference. And, I know it sounds like I am describing a different class, but I still believe this would make for a good tank. That being said, you need a high amount of health to tank effectively, but like I stated previously, the Inquisitor to me suggests that I will be able to go different routes as a tank than the norm.

That's what I hope anyway.

-Eclipse

I think you might have hit the nail on the head with this one post. I hope the Sigil Police dont come and lock this thread! :P

from what I have gathered so far on the Tanks in Vaguard. which is limited info, teasers if you will, but info none the less. Also adding to this, the thinking of the sigil team, and their deadset direction to make Vanguard "different", I would say you have just guessed their Sekret sauce plan for the tank.

This would be interesting to watch, I think it could put a more compex tank on the board to play, and only the truely talented player will become the "heros".... gone are the days of hack and slash meatshield.

Ok where do I sign up!?

[Jabari Dreamchaser]

Well said Eclipse!

-Signs his name under Tudana's - :wink:

[Eclipse]

Twice I've been accused of being a beta-tester breaching his NDA. In PMs, but still accused either way. I'm just a good guesser, :wink:

Plus, a few months ago, I decided that VG was the game I had always been looking for...and if that was true, than the things I rant about would in effect also end up being true...right? err, I think that makes sense

To test this theory...

~~

I will also guess right now, that when they say: "We've decided the role of healers won't be quite so linear in Vanguard. They will have much more to do in VG combat, and not just heal..." will be true...IF everything goes as planned. And since we all know just how often things go as planned, I think healers will find themselves not wanting to waste their mana on much but heals, if they like to survive hiccups in strategy.

~~

There it is...we'll see if I've got the Prophet's Touch. :twisted:

-Eclipse

[Tazzrin Jaegernaut]

I would agree with it being very interesting that all stats are important to some degree. However, with the warrior class, I believe they will more than likely rely more heavily on the traditional constitution + strength stats. After all you still need a massive tank meat shield for the ultra hard hitters. But who knows at this point.

[Eclipse]

But I like to think about it also from a realistic standpoint.
No hero was ever all brawn and no brains.
You might be the strongest, beefiest 'mother' out there, but if your opponent can point up in the sky with a look of shock in his face and have you look...well, your amazing constitution and strength won't last long.

Basically, it seems to me that perception is based heavily on intelligence. Therefore, since most everything has to do with perception in some way, an intelligence heavy tank would be viable. It will sure be interesting to watch.

Go all into constitution, miss the perception queue of your opponent, and simply take the hits as they come, not too worried about it being more than you can handle.

Go heavy into intelligence, have less health, but always see what your opponent is planning to do, so you can act accordingly. Not allowing the devastating attacks to come through because of your lower health.

Each reading those two sides would have their own opinion on which would be better. It all comes down to opportunity cost, for every point of intelligence I put in, is one point of constitution that I can't. So the ultimate goal is to find the sweet-spot. I intend to find it, and make my Economics professors giddy! :twisted:

-Eclipse

[Sorbus]

One of the reasons I never got into the straight melee classes in eq was the base stupidity of the class. You don't even have to be a good player, to be a great tank. just outfit decently and have a lot of HP. (understated I know but not far from the truth). Instead, I choose to play a Monk (Iksar of course) because the class was more interactive. I had to do 'some' work to make the class really work as a fighter. Yeah click auto attack and go could be done, but that left out the kicks, and fist moves, tail rakes etc. so I had to interact with my character some to make him an effective and worthy killer. I liked that more than click auto attack. click taunt. rinse and repeat.

I solo'd my character almost entirely as I don't particularly like grouping. I'm more a lone wolf type player. Sure if I need help taking down a named or something i'll group, but I prefer to be off in an unknown corner, making my mark with piles of bodies. It also means I learned to pick and choose my fights. I got good at knowing when FD was my friend and when I need to take the risk and hope I got the last hit in rather than the mob. I didn't do a lot of CR's.

The way I am reading and understanding the information I've gotten concerning vanguard, gives me hope that an MMORPG is finally getting the clue that dedicated players don't want to be able to click auto attack and walk away. they want to have to WORK to survive.

Sorbus

[Mit Senf]

You don't even have to be a good player, to be a great tank. just outfit decently and have a lot of HP.

There was a little bit more to it than that. There were plenty of horrible tanks with great gear in EQ. Not only did you have to have good reflexes, but you had to know when was the most effective time to do what, how to position mobs, have a good feel for your aggro so you knew when to call assist, have just about every mechanic of the game mastered, etc. Sure, there may not have been too much button pressing, but you definately had to be a good player to be a great tank.

[Lightning]

Originally Posted by Mit Senf

you definately had to be a good player to be a great tank.

Absolutely - when I switched to Shaman for a while in EQ1 I rapidly realised just how many poor tanks there are out there. Just little things like positioning make all the difference.

Being an EQ1 warrior with sub standard equipement I had to be right at the top of my game to do my job and I believe I did it well. There is a difference between someone who gets twinked and can tank and someone who puts their heart and soul into tanking Any tank who relegates themselves to "click auto attack. click taunt. rinse and repeat" is not a good tank.

A good tank needs to be extremely situationally aware, have deep understanding of how each class works and how they do their jobs so they can adjust their tactics to take it into account. A good tank needs to lead and direct the fight, both through positioning and commands. A tank who can walk away from the keyboard once they hit auto attack is not a tank in who's hands I would wish to place my life.

There is a difference between "tanking" and "just getting by". Some of us are proud of that.