Stats - Page 2

radhazg · 05-22-2006, 04:23 PM

intel as a valid stat for tanks? sheer greatness. every game I've seen has always been a simple case of whack and survive style tanking for the most part. ffxi had a bit of a change, I saw ninja's tank very well there. I can say now, I will definatly be investing in an intel style warr. Not just so I can see incoming attacks and defend myself better, but to see opportunities to rescue teamates as well. say perhaps, the mob can choose to "feint" and switch targets slightly before his attack goes off? If your perception/intel is high enough you can detect the ruse, and use a rescue skill acordingly.

Also, its been said that the whole "heal the meatshield" scenario is changing in regards to clerics, and they will have more to do. I see 2 outcomes. If the tank is doing his job, the cleric should likely be able to melee / nuke fairly well, with the tank simply being something of a side issue. the Tanks job will be to take all the damage yes, but as its more tactical, it wont be a matter of simply outlasting the damage. So the healer keeps tabs on the tanks hp, throws him a heal when needed, keeps a lookout on the other guys to make sure they havn't been hit with splashes or attacks the tank couldn't intercept, but overall fight the mob.
If the tank is a bad one, or say, an offensive fighter who is off tanking, the cleric will have to watch healing full time, and fight only when he's sure of the situation. this results in a loss of overall damage, so it takes longer to put down the mob.

Deadjester · 05-23-2006, 12:18 AM

I think its interesting that they have have Dex and Agility.

I am curious if they went the retarded EQ way and made stats have different degrees of effect on different class's or just gave a class more of a certain stat then another class to make up their difference.

But back to Dex and Agility.

I wonder how much affect these two stats will have on Tanks.

If they makes stats really meaning full, it could make stats a real juggling act for Tanks in VG and start opening up all sorts of debates about what makes the best tank. Hehe this could be fun.

Eclips brought up healers and I was thinking of how they intend to carry that out will be hardest thing for VG to keep balanced as the game grows and it will have the most import effect out of everything they do.

Haruchai

Skellen · 05-23-2006, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haruchai

If they makes stats really meaning full, it could make stats a real juggling act for Tanks in VG and start opening up all sorts of debates about what makes the best tank. Hehe this could be fun.

I wouldn't be surprised if it would be beneficial for tanks in groups/raids to have varying levels of strength in different areas.

radhazg · 05-24-2006, 03:57 PM

Heck, I could see it turning into a debate on which stat based tank is better for what situation. Huge brawny undead type? (think frankenstien) Go with a stam based pally. Lots of tricky undead types (think D&D ghouls here) Go with an int based pally that can better percieve those sneaky type attacks they may use. How about a fast attackig magical target? Go with a Dex based Inquisitor. Lots of combos to explore here!

wolfwarrior · 06-29-2006, 01:41 AM

I hope i get a reply on this, seeing as how this thread hasnt been active for a bit.

I'm proud to say that I've settled on a Vulmane Warrior, however, i am wondering if this stat diversity for tanks would allow me to do a weapon setup not usually associated w/ hardcore tanks. The hardcore tank usually has a shield and a ton of meat (str/const) behind it. regardless of the onehanded weapon in the other hand. I wonder if the extra perception granted by the Int stat and the extra defence granted by dex could do away w/ the shield altogether. Ive always wanted to be able to tank effectively w/ a German longsword as that is the weapon i do reenactments w/ and it can be a defensive weapon as much as offensive if you know what you're doing. So i guess what im asking of the posters here is if they think that is possible... to be a swordsman tank i guess. :?
Well anyways.
Eagerly awaiting your replies,

Skellen · 06-29-2006, 01:38 PM

Anything is possible, especially for a tank played and geared well but I don't think I'd want to play this style, except possibly in groups with multiple tanks where others can offset the lack of extra AC. The things that would concern me are the reports that combat is very dynamic and agro much more difficult to control. And are 2 handed swords even available for defensive fighters?

ellestil · 06-29-2006, 02:43 PM

Yes, two handed weapons are usable by defensive fighters.

Ellestil

wolfwarrior · 06-30-2006, 03:36 PM

I guess what I was asking after was if a twohander using tank geared for that style w/ dex, int, agl, etc. along w/ str and const, could be as effective as a tank in the traditional style of sword/shield str. and const. meatwall.
Any thoughts?

ellestil · 07-02-2006, 04:28 AM

Not really no. There will always be the trade off of more offense means less defense and vice versa. Which is how it should be. I don't think Vanguard will be any different. There are different ways to make your builds to be sure, but it all boils down to adding to one decreases the other.

You could make an Warrior that goes all out Str Agi Dex and pair it with a two handed weapon for a very offensive tank with some mitigation based off of his armor type, but with a lower HP pool than a Defense build. The problem with doing this (outside of just doing it for fun or roleplaying), is that you become a sort of tank/melee hybrid that neither tanks as well as defensive oriented tanks nor dps's as well as a true melee class.

On the other hand if you make a Warrior that goes all out Str and Const you are building a tank in the traditional sense. You could switch to a 2hndr on mobs lower level than you to help up the dps some, or go to shield+1hndr for mobs higher levels than you. You are focusing on your primary role with this build, weapons are just a small modification to your job.

Or you can go for a balanced route, spreading points around evenly to make an overall balanced tank that can take a hit, do some decent damage, and do most roles excpet maybe struggle with raiding as MT.

Another thing to account for is Vanguard's use of various gear builds. So you may find that you can be on offensive based Warrior but build a set of very high defense to help your tanking. Or a defensive warrior could put on a set of offensive oriented armor with lower mitigation to up his dps when its not as crucial for him to take a hit. And a balanced tank uses these as well to boost one way or the other.

But if you just want to swing a two hander while tanking, it usually isn't a big issue to pull one out on mobs that aren't creaming you. Basically I start my fights off with a shield and sword if I'm new to an area. If I find that I am hardly taking any damage I'll switch to my 2hndr, as damage isn't an issue. If I find I'm getting beat up on pretty hard, I keep the shield and sword combo on.

Ellestil

Xarothiell · 07-06-2006, 02:23 AM

I would focus on Intel, Agility and Constituition...more on the first two though. In EQ1 the best AA for a (hybrid) tank would be Lightning Reflexes 5 which is basically the ability to avoid damage.

My mantra would be, "I'd be better off dodging blows than being able to absorb them better."

Gearwise being equal, a 2k hitting mob could level a 10k tank in 5 hits but with more perception and avoidance, an 8k tank could survive slightly longer. This is of course sounds viable on paper, won't actually know to what extent until the number crunches begin after launch.