Protective Fighters VS Offensive Fighters

[Divona]

Hello to all I'm new here, I have a question that I thought would best be answered here.


As the title says I'm asking about Protective VS Offensive, I have played both a zerker and a monk in EQ2. I tryed a Warrior in WoW, and have a brute in CoV.

With the way VG is planning out the fighter types, it's lead me to ponder if a Monk or Zerker would even be able to hold a candle to the 'Protective' fighter. I love playing a tank, however the 'Pros' have always lacked in DPS enough that trying to solo while LFG was a giant pain. So I tend to go for an 'Off' type.

VG seems to be leaning heavy on the 4 'Pros' for tanking, while pushing the 'Offs' into just a dps roll. As a matter of fact I've seen rogues listed in the 'Offensive fighter' list along side the zerker and monk. I think in any game it's a given that you want a 'Pro' for raiding and that in general they do better over all as tanks. But for a questing grp a monk would do just fine, as long as the healer isn't a total wimp.

So I guess to get to the point, while I know an 'Off' will never be as good as a 'Pro' does VG remove the option to have a monk/zerker as a tank when a 'Pro' can't be found?

PS sorry if this isn't the right area to post this, none of the sub forums seemed to really fit, figured this was my best bet.

[AgentJ]

Even though an offensive class wouldn't be able to tank as well vs a defensive, I still think he'd be better than nothing.

does VG remove the option to have a monk/zerker as a tank when a 'Pro' can't be found?

I think you can have any class make-up you want to in a group, even four protective classes. Although you'll probably do better off if your more well-rounded (I think -- meaning one of each type if your a group of four).

[RockstR257]

I believe that you should consider the 4 "protective fighters" to be tanks and the 4 "offensive fighters" to be DPS for simplicity's sake. In EQ2 terms, pro fighters are tanks and off fighters are the equivalent of scouts. I'm not sure if Vanguard devs will give offensive fighters any tanking-oriented capabilities (taunt, defensive stance) as EQ2 devs tried to do with Brigands/Swashys. However, it is known that zerkers in Vanguard will do more damage the more damage they take, leading me to believe that they are designed to step in and take hits every now and then, unless mobs will have plenty of AOEs.

"the more damage he takes, the more damage he can dish out"

"The Berserker is not a tank. It is an offensive fighter class that deals MAJOR damage"

- Elidroth (Doug Cronkhite)

Monks also seem to be mostly a DPS class in Vanguard with the ability to debuff, use status effects, and chain attacks well, but their drunken style of fighting (one of 3 martial styles you can choose from at level 15) is

"focused on evasion and powerful counter attacks" - Vanguard Wiki

I still wouldn't count on monks/zerkers being able to tank well against tough mobs, however. If they could, pro fighters would only really be needed for raids. My guess is that 99.9% of the time you're going to want a protective fighter tanking for you in a group. That said, I'm sure they will be better at soloing than your average pro fighter (higher DPS & more exp with enough survivability) .

[ellestil]

The main things you want to look at when trying to make an Off fighter into a defensive capable one for groups is

1. Armor type allowed--Mitigation will always help when taking damage. Off types range from leather to chain. Being able to equip a shield also vs no shields.

2. Defensive capabilities--This includes avoidance, stuns, stifles, etc. Basically, how well can this class survive aggro?

3. Aggro generation--It does you no good to be able to take a hit if you can't hold a mobs attention. Both damage and maybe some limited hate generation abilities will help you here.

4. Interceptions--Does the class have the capability of intercepting attacks aimed at others in the group? If so, this is definitely a plus.

If you find after the NDA is lifted that there is a dps class that has most of the above listed qualities, then that class will be your best bet for pulling off group oriented tanking. Just also be prepared to carry extra gear for the job. You'll need a set for being pure dps when a plate tank is in group, and a set thats more defensive in nature when your doing the tanking. You'll also want to boost your mitigation and HP's as well as you can when taking on the tanking role, without sacrificing too much of your dps ability. Your DPS is usually your highest factor in your ability to hold hate.

Ellestil

[Cocytus]

Just from what I've seen, it almost sounds like some of the healers would be make for a better tank than an offensive fighter. However, having a healer tank in the absence of a protective fighter might require an additional healer to focus on tending to the rest of the group. All speculation of course, that NDA is really keeping things in the dark.

[Romycon]

Just based on past experience and what happened with the original EQ when monks were outtanking warriors. no, offensive classes will generally not be able to tank. Sony was the one who made it so monks/bruisers and berserkers were fighters, but its not the way they started out. What happened was monks mitigation was normal, and theyre avoidance was higher than pretty much every other classes. So naturally warriors complained and monks mitigation got taken down to lower than normal so warriors could take more damage. Then of course they complained again because monks got 2 more ac per agility point, never mind that leather has less than half the ac of plate, and monks were nerfed again. To keep that from happening again i think theyre going to set clear limits between offensive classes and protective tanks.

[Caelic]

In my opinion, the ideal group would have both. A defensive fighter to hold the aggro of the mobs while the offensive cause the damage. Simple enough.