Death Mechanic Changes – Feedback Thread

[Isobel]

Originally Posted by Elrar

Hey folks,

I cannot stress this enough that this is not a complete and final mechanic. This is here on test to be tested for what it is.

It is likely that these mechanics will be changed and/or modified.

So, despite the fact that most of the people on this thread ad most of the others i've seen on this subject on other boards are against the change it will be changed anyway. Why was feedback requested exactly?

[Elrar]

Originally Posted by Rhazes

Elrar I have 3 essences so far waiting to be collected they are invalid. Of course im also ghostbustered right now and cant do anything.

Can you tell us what message you're getting and the circumstances of your death? Thanks

[Mardy]

This sure will be the topic that'll get a lot of new registrations

I vote no, please don't do this as it'll simply make this way too much like the other MMO's on the market which players can play if they really want a lightweight death penalty.

I'd rather see you remove equipment decay before you remove the need to do CR. Isn't the saddlebag made for the purpose of you storing a second set of gear? It was a great concept and it works for those people that actually know they won't drop gear in the saddlebags. Also it's not like people *have to* corpse retrieval, they can just summon their corpses to the altar, the very same altar that they show up at after dying.

If you want to reduce the death penalty, might I suggest you take away the cost of summoning corpses to the altar? If you do that, then people really only lose exp when they summon their tombstone to the altar. It'd probably encourage people to summon.

Another way to reduce the death penalty is by keeping the cost to summon to altar, but reduce the amount you lose in exp, make it almost the same as working your way back.

I don't care, those are 2 viable options you can do without totally borking the cr system. I thought the current system is fair and for the most part gives people a reason to not mess around while you are dungeon crawling. I've also summoned my corpse to the altar plenty of times, and no, you don't need to ask for help, you can simply summon. I don't understand how hard it is..

Anyways just my opinion, I'm amongst the ones that will really dislike this change if it goes live.

[Elrar]

Originally Posted by Isobel

So, despite the fact that most of the people on this thread ad most of the others i've seen on this subject on other boards are against the change it will be changed anyway. Why was feedback requested exactly?

Feedback is requested from those on the Test server testing these mechanics so that we may fine tune and ensure that these specific mechanics are working properly.

[Kat_Starlish]

I don't play on the Test Server, but here's my two cents.

I think the change, at this point, is interesting. I play on the Team PvP Server where attaining Level 50 is a high goal. That being said, to me, and the rest of my guildmates and others I know Xp is golden, so even with the new change, we'll still be making "corpse runs".

The issue with no longer dropping items on your corpse is both good and bad. I know it would definately set well with 2 of the rangers I know that don't have backup melee weapons (I've yelled at them many times for not having them.) The bad part is, for others who don't value Xp as much as say I do, they won't be as inclinded to go after that essence. Trying to think of ideas on how to counter that. I had an idea, but the more I thought on it the less I think it would matter.

I'm also curious as to the extent of "Decay". Is it just that it disappears within that time, and/or the Xp left on it decays as well?

[wullailhuit]

Ummm..

So...we lose more XP instead of losing items..

I'm ok with this change as long as the amount of XP is sufficiently higher than it is currently...it would still encourage me to go recover my XP.

In fact I'd find it more of an encouragement than I already do as often right now I'll just summon if a group is splitting up after a wipe.

Knowing the essence will decay in 5 days or so will mean I'd try and go back in on another day to get it or try find somene who could drag it out (if thats possible).

My only concern , this means nobody will bother binding any gear so now ALL items will return to the market on live...it's glutted with gear already , this will only make things worse.

Unless you make souldbound gear not take damage , but..of course...the rate of decay was greatly reduced so thats not really a problem any more...

You're making more problems than you know for the future of your games economy.

[UnchainedAcolyte]

Originally Posted by Nemis

snip...

In my opinion, if you don't have to go back to the spot of your death for something relatively important, then there's really not a lot of reason to go back. XP can always be regained, but equipment cannot. Some of the most memorable experiences I have had in MMORPGs (and I've been around a while), are things like helping my patron recover his corpse in Asheron's Call in an incredibly BAD spot out in the wilderness, and EQ when I tried to run through Kithicor Forest at dusk, or my buddy dropping to his death from the trees in the Elf City in EQ, and he had to run all the way from freeport because he forgot to bind.... These are things both me and my (non hard core) friends remember with great fondness. Hell, we talked about them at the water cooler! We are not hard-core, but there needs to be risk, else it's not that much fun. (Emphasis Mine)

I think the current risk/reward for death is balanced perfectly. (at least for levels 20 or lower). If it is not balanced at higher levels then maybe you could 'tweak' them, but I feel it might be a step in the wrong direction if you take away most of the death penalty you now have in place (XP loss + possible equipment loss). After all, if you want to lose both the experience and some money, you can summon your remains from the altar. I think this change is perhaps a bit unwise.

To summarize, I think the change should not go Live.

Best regards,
Nemis

I agree wholeheartedly. There are already enough alternatives for death/experience recovery. Why simplify things to make them even easier?

For those concerned with alternate sets of armor/equipment, players can already soulbind them or place them in their saddlebags, which are not left on a corpse after death.

Corpse/Tombstone recovery helps to teach players the ins and outs of particular areas/dungeons, how to group, and how to play.

What will taking away most/any kind of experience/recovery penalty accomplish?

I too subscribed to the forums just to reply.

[Mentin]

Sigh.. general comment: I see a disturbing trend from Sigil to dumb the game down. Please please accept that some customers will not like the game, and stay true on your course of making it more challenging than the big unnamed one. Please please don't let the 'I quit because it is too hard' threads make you dumb it down.. remember what your targeted market segment is and stay true to it.

I love the freedom to mess up in VG and pay the price for it.. that is a core part of the game being challenging.

As for the proposed changes:
* Gear not being in tombstone is no biggie since the important stuff should be soulbound anyways.

BUT:
* There need to be a mechanism to force people to soulbind gear. The economy is screwed enough as it is, if gear does not get out of the economy by soulbinding it will be a complete mess. For instance make gear 25% less effective if not soulbound.

* Do not reduce the xp penalty for dying. It is the cost of dying that creates the suspense when going deep into a dungeon or engaging a hard mob. No suspense = way less fun. Personally I would rather see it increased since xp is way too easy to get anyways.

********** Reduce xp income, it is way too high ***********
********** Make death sting even more, it is to lenient as it is *********

[Anakior]

I have only register for this.

I'm what we can call a casual gamer. And you know what? I like the system like it is now. Please don't change it.

I like the stress for the death, i like to suffer when i make mistake, i like that but if you retire this, there is no meaning anymore. That's sad.

Next step : - You don't have to click on your shard, you regain automatically your shard when you're close (because corpse get stuck and can't be click sometimes. It's a customer service nigtmare)

And the last : - Shard disappear. You're only losing xp and have to repair your gear. (Like that, customer service can be more efficient on other duty)

Hey, we already have a game like that, eq2...

While leaving items on the corpse in one way to make death mean something, it's also a customer service nightmare.
- Items get lost.
- Players think items got lost.
- Players cant get their corpse / items back and they don't want to summon their corpse because they will lose exp.
- the corpse / items are just plain lost due to a unforeseen bug.
- the player accidentally lost some items while looting.
- the player thinks is crazy that they can get their first set of gear back while wearing their second set of gear when clearly the first set wasn't good enough.

So you're saying that you prefere put back the old death because you can't find the bug that make item to disappear on death?

Please keep the meaning for death.

[Bhagpuss]

My only testing on this so far has been to die three times and not be able to loot any of the gravestones. That was before I read this thread about the changes and I don't have time to log back in and see how it is working now, although I will do so later in the weekend.

On the substantive issue of the changes, what on earth is the point of swapping a gravestone for an essence? It does indeed, as someone above pointed out, sound like the abominable, much-hated system that EQ2 launched with and had to abandon in a matter of weeks because of the disruption it caused to group gameplay.

On Live I am currently playing a 33rd Disciple. The only reason I do CRs rather than summon my corpse is to get the XP back. It makes absolutely no difference whatsoever if I have to go and get an Essence or a Tombstone - I still have to go and get it or lose xp. Getting my gear back when I die makes no difference whatsoever.

I would massively prefer no XP loss on death and a full CR if I want to get my non-bound items back. That would encourage bonding of far more gear, which would be a boost to the economy, and remove the thing which, in my opinion, really acts as a barrier-to-entry for new subscribers on this issue, which is XP loss.

If I really do have to do an "Essence Run" for every death, that seems to me to be a harsher death penalty than the current one.

More comments after I get the chance to log in to Test again and try to get my three corpses, or essences, back.