Gold Selling/powerleveling

[sorkvir]

So those over on Shidreth are familiar with the below messages


(shamefully stolen from Silky Venom)

So, I see no problem banning/reprimanding people for attempting to sell gold. Powerleveling? I don't know. I guess I feel the same, but I don't have too strong of an opinion. I don't like the idea because you have a high-lvl char that doesnt know how to play the class.

But my question is this....what about the people SELLING the gold to the gold sellers? Isn't this really where the problem is? I know that half the accounts banned were just buddy keys and had nothing on them. What about the REAL accounts?

I personally think that yes, banning gold sellers is bad, but they should be working more on tracking who's selling the gold.

And the more disturbing thought....who has enough gold to sell it to a gold seller?

[Naiya]

Here's my two copper and your mileage may differ - please keep in mind I'm *horribly* anti-social and I have two different views -

The Player Perspective (In Me)

If someone wants to PL their toon - it doesn't affect me. Why? Cause if they show me (in the rare instance I actually do a PUG) that they are incapable of playing their character or teaming effectively, we will no longer be teaming

If someone wants to spend RL money on in game currancy - it doesn't affect me. Why? Because I don't care what joe schmoe has or what "phat lewt" he is equipped with. I have done my best to set up my accounts to be self sufficient. for me, diversification has been the key and with the multitude of classes/crafting skills among my toons, I think I'll be able to maximize my enjoyment of the game as defined by my particular play style


The Business Perspective (In Me)

I believe that Sigil has the responsibility to protect their IP. This includes the selling of virtual property for real currency. There are a variety of steps that need to be followed if you are going to protect that IP or you cannot follow up in a legal matter **should they ever choose this path in the future**.

I fully support whatever steps Sigil feels is instrumental to ensure the longevity of their product. If they feel power leveling or the selling of in game currency is detrimental to the continued vitality of their sustained environment - then I would assume they know best and the practices should be curbed/limited within the scope of the TOS/ELUA

wow - when I go into business mode - I really go into business mode don't I? At anyrate - that's my two copper. It works for me, your mileage (and playstyle) may very

[Sigurd]

I've talked about this briefly recently with a friend, what seems to me to be the main prob with gold sellers is simply the approach taken which leads to an exaggeration of the normal result of 'farming'.

Consider:
I want alot of gold. I put on my overalls and go to some spot where mobs drop decent silver or whatever (I'm low so no clue)

I sit there mindnumbing hour after hour. I get alot of cash.

PROBABLY I did this so I could buy alot of cool stuff I cannot or feel I cannot gain otherwise.

I buy that stuff, presumably multiple stuffs. Several other people get my cash.

No real prob, a bump in the total cash brought into the world and to players.

This happens all the time with many people grinding cash for a reason. The task is boring and not 'fun' it's more work - maybe something you do while watching TV. You might instead camp a high sale price item drop and therefore can read a book while waiting on the spawn instead. But no matter how prevalent, this is not the only focus for these people.

Enter the gold farmers. These are REALLY farmers whose JOB it is to do the mind numbing farming. Now, when it is out entertainment there is a inherant limit (diff for diff ppl depending on tolerance levels towards boredom) to the amount of time you spend on it - when it is a JOB you EXPECT to be bored and punch your clock and get paid (in rl) so you work it in shifts and ...

INORDINATELY large amounts of cash flows into the economy (who cares about the RL cash ;P) and voila... in a short time once it catches hold and is going full steam -> EVERYTHING starts going up in prices as those buying gold can buy more or pay more. Then... those who would not buy gold rationalize that they must (and in part they will actually need to if they wish to BUY things vs earn em hunting) also buy and it gains more momentum.

In the end, we have Tin ore selling for 5g per stack of 20, items which now are overpriced at 50sp or 1gp going for 10gp or 100gp... etc - the inflationary spiral just feeds on itself.

Usually it takes YEARS for the economy to fubar itself without proper cashsinks. This allows us to reach entropy in a matter of months.

[Fraya]

Unless the devs actively combat it by reducing the total amount of money in the economy.

Such as spawning a rare item, selling it for massive amounts of gold then deleting the gold.

Once you sell enough of them that they arent worth much anymore, nerf them into oblivion and make something new.

[Aen]

.....

[Sheazy]

I just find the whole idea of powerlevelling services silly. I mean, not only do you pay to buy the game and pay the monthly fee, but for some reason it seems like a good idea to pay someone to play the game for you?

It's obviously not quite that simple, but the idea still makes me laugh.

[Aen]

.....

[sorkvir]

I would just adopt a kid and make him play when i am at work

OMG! I need a napkin to clean off my monitor. That made me laugh so hard.

[Aredhel]

I think everyone understands the gold farmer thing, in actuality. I'm not sure about the pwrlvl'ing.

There are 2 things wrong with this:

1) PAYING real money to someone to level your character
2) paying real money to someone to level YOUR character!

See tha problem?

First, someone is benefitting cold, hard cash from what the game has done for you to learn your character, so it's a secondary market.

Second, you have allowed someone else access to YOUR account. Bannable offense, actually!

Does that help at all?

For any of you old EQ'ers, remember what we were all told about giving login information to someone else and then something happening to your account down the road, or you reported your account hacked and it was found that it was someone you had given the info to? Either or all accounts could be banned. I think it's pretty much the same philosophy here at Sigil! If not, it should be. It's a nightmare going back thru logs and finding out what happened, and it takes time away from what the GMs could be working on up to the minute!

Now...finding actual hackers.....THAT'S FUN!!! (And, yes...there are cases of actual hacks from stolen info from a computer!)

[Ysharros]

Originally Posted by sorkvir

And the more disturbing thought....who has enough gold to sell it to a gold seller?

If this works as it does in WoW and many other games, for the most part the gold is farmed by teams of people doing just that -- they're not real players in my sense of the word, they're just people who log in, do their job (farm stuff for cash), and pass the toon on to the next person once their shift is over.

This *is* a sizeable and growing business. I find it morally objectionable for more than one reason, but I realise that's a subjective thing. Objectively, however, it is not allowed in Vanguard -- and that should be that, really.