Dual Loggin & Two Boxing - Your Thoughts

[sherrjo]

yes but any 2v1 encouter would lead to the same debate I still don't see the relevance other than the 2 box person doesn't need another RL person to have the buffs, but why should that matter?

[Ysharros]

It matters to some, it doesn't to others. That's the whole point of debate. Not agreeing with something doesn't invalidate its value in discussion. If it doesn't interest you... don't debate it.

[Eldest]

Originally Posted by sherrjo

yes but any 2v1 encouter would lead to the same debate I still don't see the relevance other than the 2 box person doesn't need another RL person to have the buffs, but why should that matter?

You got it right, makes no difference and pretty useless to even try to debate it.

the whole issue is jealousy, the whinners can't duel box and need somewhere to piss and moan about it...

[Ysharros]

Gotta love places where you can have an interesting discussion. You know, places designed for that. Like... oh, forums.

Sheesh.

As an aside, the issue is *not* all about jealousy and most certainly not because those who whine can't dual box. Some people feel is devalues their own investment in a single character to have people levelling several at once - though since usually that describes two pretty different playstyles, I'm not sure it's reconcilable.

Just a single example (since the PvP one was mentioned already). Feeling devalued is not equal to being jealous. But I think I'm wasting my breath here. Try imagining another point of view once in a while, it'll do you good.

[Shinto]

I don't think it is necessarily wrong to dual box, any more than I think it is necessarily wrong to have a guild supergrinding to max level from day 1 (which one is doing in Florendyl, apparently). However, it does devalue the game to me when I do that.

Originally Posted by Eldest

You got it right, makes no difference and pretty useless to even try to debate it.

the whole issue is jealousy, the whinners can't duel box and need somewhere to piss and moan about it...

I could dual box - that is, I have both the cash and hardware - but I choose not to. There is no point in cutting off the debate just because you disagree with one side.

[Calren]

Personally I enjoy dual boxing, but I'm not currently doing it with VG, mainly since my second rig can't run the game at any respectable rate. But also because I want to experience the game, get a little more immersed in the world as I develop my main character.

The one area in which I think running multiple accounts can be problematic is PVP. Buff botting I think is a result of the game's basic design ideas, they existed in DAoC because of this. They perhaps will do in VG too, I haven't played PVP so I wouldn't know. Just google Team Wizzy and I think most people will agree that it crosses a line (albeit in a comedic fashion, the videos are hilarious).

The reason I started this discussion was just to see what other players felt about the issue, that's all.

[Ysharros]

Calren, nobody is faulting your wish for debate. :-) We (well, I at least) are taking issue with the response that says "this isn't important to me so stop discussing it already and you're all jealous anyway" -- especially on a forum which is designed especially for this kind of discussion.

It's bothered me now and then to see dual-boxers, in the same way that I get a twinge of envy when I see that Shinto is already a level umpty-ump weaponsmith and I'm not, and I see the phat lewtz he's making. Then I get over myself, because if it was vital to me to be an umpty-ump whatever right now, I'd have made a lot more effort to get there. It seems to me as though dual boxers have a slight advantage (and they do), but it takes skill and in PvE, as was pointed out above, it's not much different from two friends who regularly play together or people playing in the same room. Duoing with hubby has made it evident, over the years, that sitting in the same room is a huge advantage over people who aren't in the same location. In PvE, fortunately, that doesn't really matter.

While sometimes I think I'd like to be the first to do this or that, or be really dedicated and have only one char, ultimately that's not my playstyle. I play intensively but if I do the same thing too long I get jaded, so I tend to have alts and do lots of sidetracking activities like harvesting (which, I sadly admit, I absolutely love). It's like thinking occasionally that I'd like to have a platinum-blonde hair job - I think it for 30 seconds and then realise naaaah, that's not me. And the one good thing that comes with age is I have a rather better sense than I did of what *is* me, and what I enjoy.

Like I said above though, those 5-clones on a string I've seen already on Shidreth do leave a really bad taste with me. I can't see *anyone* playing 6 chars at once with any degree of skill, and I have a really hard time believing it's just a normal Joe sitting there doing that. Also, everyone I know & have heard from who multiboxes tends to, at most, 3-box. Beyond that it gets almost impossible to control everyone without automation.

[Shinto]

Ah. I missed it before, but Ysharros hit the one effect of dual-boxing that would really really make me angry. Harvesting. In normal harvesting, everyone gets slightly less res than normal unless everyone maxes, but we get more overall because we are able to go fast and not trip over each other looking for nodes. If one were to have multiple subs with which to simultaneously harvest, one would gain an unfair advantage in this aspect, as one could basically get 1.5-2 times as much per node as one should.

So, yes, there are times at which this is unfair. But those are the exception, not the rule.

[sherrjo]

I'm sorry if anyone has taken umbridge at my response my question of why does it matter was a genuine question.

I haven't pvped and have limited time to play the game I was curious as to the benefits of two boxing and also how this affects the gameplay of others. Apart from the pvp buffs I can't see any other way.

If someone has two subs then don't they deserve slightly more harvested loot after all their loot per $ £ or € is the same no?

I think it's a valid discussion topic as are all on the forum so don't hate me for asking a question

Peace,

Jas

[Ysharros]

No hate. A little exasperation at Eldest though, maybe.

It matters to some because of the possibly old-fashioned idea of "earning" stuff in games. I'm not being sarcastic, merely noting that, on the whole, it's an attitude more prevalent among older gamers than among the younger crowd. The thing is, as you point out, we're all paying the same subscription so if someone pays twice, don't they deserve that bonus?

They're two different lines of reasoning and the earning one is very subjective, though I share it. I like to feel I've "earned" things in game and not had them handed to me; some players feel quite differently, and enjoy being able to finagle stuff with the least amount of effort possible. Both are valid playstyles, but those who like to feel their effort & time invested mean something usually find it a little uncomfortable that one person can get twice the reward for the same amount of effort. No, it's not really the same amount of effort but neither is it the same as 2 people playing. No, it's not particularly rational or objective, but much about games isn't. And that someone is paying twice the subs is, while quite true, not that relevant to how one feels about it.

As I said above, I can live with two-boxers. They don't bother me a great deal. More than that though, 3 or 4 or 5 chars on a string behind someone, and I *know* there's automation (or just plain puppet perma-follow) involved, and that *does* make my own efforts feel cheap, because ultimately someone is getting 6 times the xp for doing 1-2 times the effort - regardless of how many subs they've bought. It may not be illegal, but I certainly find it distasteful.

Part of the solution is not to let that particular aspect of boxing bother me, and I try. But since we're having a debate, I admit to it for the sake of furthering the discussion. Or something. I just like to waffle.