Some People...

[Calren]

A couple of guys over on the VG VN Boards (IGN) said this.

Its all still excuses. If you can't complete your project on time and on budget, you are at fault.

There is sticking to your vision... then there is the ability to break it down and compartmentalize it to the point where you can actually make some deliverables to your client that are stable and trouble free.

I am a software development manager where I work, and after watching Sigil struggle to get this game out, it sets red flags off in my head at every turn.

This is a great example of how money and buisness issues can ruin a game, if Sigil had all the time in the world to build the game until they were happy to release we'd have a more polished product.

I accept that this is the way things are, but I just can't believe the argument is still going on that Sigil are at fault here. It's really sad to see people who can't see past the money to the "vision" behind the game.

This one is my favourite, I doubt many people here will agree with it.

If they had a $20 million budget, and a July 2006 release date, then they should have made a smaller game they could have released within those constraints.

[FEDS-91]

I love how everyone with any technical background thinks 'they know' or they could do better. Until goofs like that are put in a situation like Sigil's they need to just pipe the hell down.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by FEDS-91

I love how everyone with any technical background thinks 'they know' or they could do better. Until goofs like that are put in a situation like Sigil's they need to just pipe the hell down.

people with technical backgrounds often think logically.. so when they see that one company is able to do something and another cant they arrive at certain conclusions.

I dont think someone with ANY kind of technical background think that THEY can do it better.. but often they know someone who can

[Roo]

Heh...I usually find that the people with "a technical" background, or who work as a "software developer" are usually people with little or no experience (nothing against people who actually are, this is just my experience).

Sure, in a perfect world we should have x time for planning, y time for coding, and z time for bugtesting. But in reality that rarely happens. Especially when the publishers is forcing you to make a release.

Sure...Vanguard could've been a bit more polished...but it could've also been alot more buggy.

[Jelonna]

It's a tough decision but there comes a time when you have to decide to release the product so you can begin making a profit on it. Otherwise you just run out of money, the game is never released and your efforts are wasted.

All these people who think they know what they're talking about when they go all self-righteous should have enough sense to realize that a brand-spanking-new MMO game is not going to be polished. None in the history of the genre has been and there's no reason to expect it of VG.

I constantly find myself arguing with these people in game and get called things like "fanboi" because of it...well better a fanboi than some discontented miserable jerk who's only dissatisfied because of his unreasonable expectations.

My experience in life is that no matter how much you test something, no matter how much you practise, when it comes time for the "performance" something will go wrong that has never before been a problem. With a system as complex as an MMO there will be things that won't show their face until the live release; until the game is stressed by more than just the beta testers. It's a fact of being an MMO player. If you want bug-free you should go back to Pacman.

[Excedrin]

Well, I guess since I do Tech PM (Project Management/Development) for a living, I am "one of those" that don't know what they're talking about and shouldn't offer an opinion.

That being said

It is easy and not uncommon (take my post here as an example) for someone with technical background and expertise to make comments based on their experience as to what they would or would not have done during a project such as releasing so called unfinished products etc (too many variables to list here). Hindsight is 20/20!

Each developed product and project is unique and each has a unique set of learning curves and opportunities. No two are ever the same. Lessons learned on one project are hopefully implemented in the next and so on through out ones career.

However, all projects have two things in common:

1. They have a budget
2. They are expected to have a significant ROI (Return on Investment).

If they don't have significant expected ROI, they don't get a budget! If after release the ROI diminishes or can not sustain continued support or development base on positive cash flow, the project is canceled and funds and resources are allocated to the next project in the queue.

The main focus typically, is to try to minimize the budgetary impacts (overruns, time frames, resource utilization etc) and maximize the ROI. This drives the release date and features we see when products are released to the consumer. New products are never 100%! At least I have never seen one.

After all companies develop products for consumers for revenue! Some are contious revenue streams, others are one shot make a profit type of product.

They don't do it out of the goodness of their heart to produce the "best playing experience online", "the best word processor anywhere" or any other category!

Now what is most interesting to me regarding many posts I've read is that typically posters do not have "Gaming" or entertainment product experience or backgrounds.

It is difficult to relate the development and project management experience of business products to entertainment products. It's apples and oranges.

Opinions about what "should or should not have been done", "what would have happened if they released a product like this" etc., are just that: Opinions.

No need to flame or tell them to butt out,etc.

We're all entitled to have and voice an opinion when we feel strongly about something. In my country: U.S.A. it seems to be what we do best.

My action is to read the thread, post a comment or opinion if I have one and not get upset about the topic at hand. It's too political in nature and I never argue politics or religion (whole 'nother ball of wax).

Thanks for reading.

[Ysharros]

Excedrin said it all but I'm going to weigh in anyway - what would forums be if we didn't blow hot air for the sake of it?!

It's very easy to be an expert after the fact. That old hindsight thing.
It's even easier to be an armchair coach.
And having a technical degree is no indicator of common sense or even basic world experience. Nerd /= knowledgeable.

I'll add to that, that the younger the poster, the less concept they seem to have of budgets, money, and general project constraints. I didn't much either until I started paying my own bills, and of course with techies that can take longer since they don't leave home as early. (Yeah, I'm being mostly facetious. I won't mention that several of my techie friends lived with their parents almost to their 30s ).

Finally, I avoid the Very Nasty boards as much as possible, since every visit seems to result in an IQ drop I can no longer easily afford. I avoid the FoH boards for similar reason - there is *way* too much muck to wade through to find the odd pearl. I'd much rather stay here and find more pearls with less effort.

[FEDS-91]

Originally Posted by Snowman

people with technical backgrounds often think logically.. so when they see that one company is able to do something and another cant they arrive at certain conclusions.

Thanks for that insight. Working in I.S. I wouldn't have put that together. To me whats closer to the likely truth is, geeks (myself included on occasion) are prone to whining and have no qualms about doing so whenever they feel fit or feel they aren't getting what they want or 'feel' they deserve.

Originally Posted by Snowman

I dont think someone with ANY kind of technical background think that THEY can do it better.. but often they think know someone who can

Fixed.

[TheKnight]

Well, as a Computer Scientist in training, I understand already how things like this happen and how it's not always the teams falt. Coding can take rediculus amounts of time to get right, and I don't want to immagine how much more goes into something of this size than anything I've done/seen!