Ninja Looting

[slowheal]

I'm sure that most folks wont have these problems and I tend to shy away from loot issues in favor of group integrity. I do understand the need on rare occassions to just say hey guys I have to go when things get crazy in a group juxtaposed to confrontations.
I aggree with the posts here, if you happen to be in a steady stream of some situations that you just simply decide what is fair to you and to get a concensus when you join a group.
I think it's better to "assume" that most misunderstandings are due to not really understanding the written words and what they mean to all readers.
Voice coms do tend to clear a lot of that up, I strongly support those and keep a TS server up from Guild Wars days, but I find few willing or able to use those programs for some reason.

[Etrigan]

Originally Posted by talz

You are what I call 'A Dreamer.
My impressions of VG are it's fairly item centric and some people will get silly in such a game.

More like optimist. ;p

But yeah, any loot-centric game will have issues, but I'm just saying that hopefully with more mature people things can at least be a lot better than on say, WoW.

[Pel]

lets hope so... i know maturity has a lot to do with how smoothy a game runs. not to bash wow, but in my experiance there where a lot more younger kids play i had all sorts of problems like this, as apposed to DnD or ffxi... however i know im using vuage generalitys and it is entirely possible that i was on the wrong server or at the wrong times, i only played wow for a lil under a month = /

[Etrigan]

Yes and no. FFXI had a structure of grouping that was so rigid that people cared about their reputations; if you had a bad reputation yuo didn't group. You don't group, you don't level, simple as that. With grouping being such a huge component of Vanguard, hopefully there will be a return to people caring about their reputations.

[Caliway]

In this hypothetical situation....

If the group stated rules up front that the looting was need before greed, then those are the rules... period.. whether you like them or not. if you don't like them.. leave the group.

Futhermore, if in this said hypothetical situation, you are in a group.. in say hmmm kaladim, and a ranger only item drops and it is a nice upgrade for the ranger in the group, and the group agrees it is worthy for the ranger.. according to the rules set in the group up front, then it should go to the ranger.. What usually happens is everyone declines the roll except the ranger. Even if at that point you really did not know the rules were nbg then you still should have sucked it up and gave it to the ranger and if you really did not want nbg then you should just leave the group gracefully.

If hypothetically later, a mage item drops that is a huge upgrade to the mage in the group, and he is supposed to get it due to the group rules.. the last thing you should do is roll.. and then claim you won it because the group leader had rolling on loot rolls turned on, then gate (knowing from he incident earlier the rules were nbg), camp and later claim you won it fair and square because the leader had the rolling set to loot rolls and that you thought *NBG is crap!*.. You only *won* it via roll because you and the mage were the ONLY ones rolling.. everyone else declined expecting it to go to the mage. When you do stuff like that, do not be surprised you get kicked out of alot of groups and guilds during your tenure in any game .

Now speaking of NBG in general.. I like it when you are in a group of friends/guildmates.. I never ever loot something, someone in the group can use as an upgrade usually.. unless the rules are ffa.. but when you are in a pickup group sometimes nbg can be abused by people you dont know, so you just have to be careful.

Wow I sure put in tons of details into this *hypoothetical* situation .

The moral of the story.. is in groups and raids.. Always, always, always state the loot rules up front, and then abide by them and do not change them later. If you do not agree with the loot rules.. do not join the raid or group. Knowingly going against the stated group rules is a sure fire way to be labeled non gratus in groups or raids.. and in games like these mmorpgs.. your rep usually means something and it is a shame to ruin.

[Etrigan]

Originally Posted by Caliway

In this hypothetical situation....

If the group stated rules up front that the looting was need before greed, then those are the rules... period.. whether you like them or not. if you don't like them.. leave the group.

I agree with you here, but in a lot of ways I can't help but wish that NBG should be the standard ways any group should operate, really it makes the most sense, especially during leveling when you want to get people upgrades and such.

Futhermore, if in this said hypothetical situation, you are in a group.. in say hmmm kaladim, and a ranger only item drops and it is a nice upgrade for the ranger in the group, and the group agrees it is worthy for the ranger.. according to the rules set in the group up front, then it should go to the ranger.. What usually happens is everyone declines the roll except the ranger. Even if at that point you really did not know the rules were nbg then you still should have sucked it up and gave it to the ranger and if you really did not want nbg then you should just leave the group gracefully.

My opinion on this is: If a Ranger upgrade drops and there is a Ranger in the group who can use it (whether it be a major or minor upgrade, it does not matter; to me an upgrade is an upgrade is an upgrade). If you cannot handle someone else in the group who is helping YOU level gets an upgrade to help YOU level quicker, than honstly? You need to just stop playing. I really have no patience or respect for people who can't be happy for people who get something.

This was my number one pet peeve with WoW. Every guild I joined, no one cared about anything but themselves. THere was no mentality that an item that went to a person as a major upgrade, was a major upgrade to the entire raid. No one could see such simple concepts it seemed. I am hoping that Vanguard attracts more people like me, since the last game that I've played where people have "for the guild/group" mentalities was EQ.

If hypothetically later, a mage item drops that is a huge upgrade to the mage in the group, and he is supposed to get it due to the group rules.. the last thing you should do is roll.. and then claim you won it because the group leader had rolling on loot rolls turned on, then gate (knowing from he incident earlier the rules were nbg), camp and later claim you won it fair and square because the leader had the rolling set to loot rolls and that you thought *NBG is crap!*.. You only *won* it via roll because you and the mage were the ONLY ones rolling.. everyone else declined expecting it to go to the mage. When you do stuff like that, do not be surprised you get kicked out of alot of groups and guilds during your tenure in any game .

People like this should be blacklisted. I mean honestly. If you're going to be that unappreciative of people helping you level, then you don't deserve to get groups anymore. Bottom line is that I hate people who think like this. If you can't stand NBG, don't play MMOs. That's my thought.

Now speaking of NBG in general.. I like it when you are in a group of friends/guildmates.. I never ever loot something, someone in the group can use as an upgrade usually.. unless the rules are ffa.. but when you are in a pickup group sometimes nbg can be abused by people you dont know, so you just have to be careful.

Wow I sure put in tons of details into this *hypoothetical* situation .

I don't do FFA groups, just not very well run in my experiences. I always use NBG even with friends/guildies because an upgrade for someone is an upgrade for the group. Only time I've ever run on actual conversations on loot is when an item drops and it can be good for two people and those two people compare to see who it's a bigger upgrade for.

The moral of the story.. is in groups and raids.. Always, always, always state the loot rules up front, and then abide by them and do not change them later. If you do not agree with the loot rules.. do not join the raid or group. Knowingly going against the stated group rules is a sure fire way to be labeled non gratus in groups or raids.. and in games like these mmorpgs.. your rep usually means something and it is a shame to ruin.

Raids normally have their own loot system be it DKP or some sort of loot wheel, but yes, I agree that people who can't be bothered to play nice should just not join groups. I view ninja looters and loot whiners as nothing more than griefers who can't stand it when someone else feels good about getting an upgrade when said loot whiner is thinking, "I could have sold that for a plat."

Gets me upset just thinking about it. :P

[Eyse Gage]

FFA rules are beneficial in a big guild raid type setting.

1 looter (usually guild leader or assigned to officer). Just have to make it clear to all members if they even bend over to look at the corpse they are kicked out of the guild. Thats how our WoW guild ran things and we didn't have a problem at all.

[slowheal]

Whenever blacklisting is mentioned I get the shivers. Counter points can be ignored, over reactions can be applied and sometimes questionable motives can be the controling factors. The result is yes you do drive another account away from the game. Might note that if the original event or whatever that led a group of folks to do this probably does not sit on the games list of banable offenses. Thus you leave folks "Hard to live with" out in the cold with no system of addressing the original event. It degrades into a mob mentality spread by word of mouth. I recognize we live in a world where yellow journalism is popular but do we have to adopt it into gameing? If we do then we say it's ok to drag RL into a virtual escape Mechanisms and then we haven't escaped at all. We just populated our virtual worlds with the same things that we all found annoying in school as teenagers.
I do read this a lot on a lot of boards so I do think it will happen in Vanguard and, may I be honest here, some trepidation surrounds this game for me because of this type of activity.

In no way have I flamed anyone here. I completely accept that Vertual communities will form thier own social systems. I just Lament at least one game I wish I could have stayed in and played but I had to cancel the account and bleed another account from the company becasue this was so prevalent I had to choose to leave. I also have actually been the target of this kind of activity once and yet across many many games I am known as a kind and good player.
my 2 cents

[Etrigan]

Originally Posted by Eyse Gage

FFA rules are beneficial in a big guild raid type setting.

1 looter (usually guild leader or assigned to officer). Just have to make it clear to all members if they even bend over to look at the corpse they are kicked out of the guild. Thats how our WoW guild ran things and we didn't have a problem at all.

Well, in a guild setting yes. Guild loot rules are a completely different topic apart from group rules. BTW, your Snake record will go down someday!

Originally Posted by slowheal

Whenever blacklisting is mentioned I get the shivers. Counter points can be ignored, over reactions can be applied and sometimes questionable motives can be the controling factors. The result is yes you do drive another account away from the game. Might note that if the original event or whatever that led a group of folks to do this probably does not sit on the games list of banable offenses. Thus you leave folks "Hard to live with" out in the cold with no system of addressing the original event. It degrades into a mob mentality spread by word of mouth. I recognize we live in a world where yellow journalism is popular but do we have to adopt it into gameing? If we do then we say it's ok to drag RL into a virtual escape Mechanisms and then we haven't escaped at all. We just populated our virtual worlds with the same things that we all found annoying in school as teenagers.
I do read this a lot on a lot of boards so I do think it will happen in Vanguard and, may I be honest here, some trepidation surrounds this game for me because of this type of activity.

In no way have I flamed anyone here. I completely accept that Vertual communities will form thier own social systems. I just Lament at least one game I wish I could have stayed in and played but I had to cancel the account and bleed another account from the company becasue this was so prevalent I had to choose to leave. I also have actually been the target of this kind of activity once and yet across many many games I am known as a kind and good player.
my 2 cents

Good players who are kind and helpful, in my experiences, are well liked and can get groups easily. What's being talked about are people who are overly greedy and rude and such. Reputation goes a long way in games such as these, and by their actions, they condemn any future progress with that character.

[Eyse Gage]

Originally Posted by Etrigan

Well, in a guild setting yes. Guild loot rules are a completely different topic apart from group rules. BTW, your Snake record will go down someday!

Aye, FFA in small groups is useless unless you're going for a dungeon speed record or group XP grinding.

Good luck on that record I was in the zone that day! lol