Paladins as Raid MT

[Nym]

Originally Posted by Agraza

I really don't want equality anymore. Just let Paladins have their turn. Dread Knights and Inquisitors can MT in Vanguard 2, and Warriors can ride the back of the bus for once.

omg... it's started already and the game is not even out....

cheers
nym

[Skellen]

Originally Posted by Nym

omg... it's started already and the game is not even out....

cheers
nym

Heh, I figured Agraza is a recent burnout of EQ/EQ2/WoW. We've been pretty lucky with the posters on this board thus far though. Hopefully it'll continue through the games release.

Oh and Agraza, click this link when you need to cheer yourself up (it's work safe) http://www.deviantart.com/view/9311361/

[Jomeo]

I am a burn out from WoW former warrior full T2 the nice stuff but I ended up quiting because for me it was the same two buttongs over and over again sunder and heroic strike for the lose. hopefully Vanguard will not make it a 2 button aproach.

[Zenya]

I've been thinking a lot about this equality thing lately and I'd rather have moments when I shine (as a pally) instead of being equal with all other DF tanks all the time. Why ? Because I think it would give my game sessions diversity instead of the same old same, old every time I log on.

However, I don't want to be a manasponge with a lower chance of finding groups :shock:! Hopefully, any possible inequality will only be slight, albeit spicy.

[Kendoshan]

Over the years I've heard this argument hashed out over and over again, and as a paladin lover from way back I never fully understood the passion behind some of the people.

As a paladin of course you should be capable of tanking, but I never wanted to surprass warriors in this realm (atleast not on most things, some occasions it is nice, undead and the like)

I played EQ from way back when paladins had lower mitigation, lower damage, spells cost more mana to cast and our mana pools where half of a clerics. Even dureing those days I loved my class.

I've always envisiond a paladin as a supporting class with the ability to step up to the plate when the shit hits the fan and save everyone around me, and that's how I played in everquest even with the different changes they made.

If I continue to play a paladin in vanguard I dont want to be shoved into a tanking role above and beyond everyone else. I would much rather play a holy protector, saving everyone from random situations including the main tank.

I'm not saying paladins shouldnt be able to tank, just in most situations we should be the ones that step in and save the tank rather then the full time tank.

Guess this is getting long, hopefully that came out the way it sounds in my head. hehe

[Marlowe]

Originally Posted by Kendoshan

Over the years I've heard this argument hashed out over and over again, and as a paladin lover from way back I never fully understood the passion behind some of the people.

As a paladin of course you should be capable of tanking, but I never wanted to surprass warriors in this realm (atleast not on most things, some occasions it is nice, undead and the like)

I played EQ from way back when paladins had lower mitigation, lower damage, spells cost more mana to cast and our mana pools where half of a clerics. Even dureing those days I loved my class.

I've always envisiond a paladin as a supporting class with the ability to step up to the plate when the shit hits the fan and save everyone around me, and that's how I played in everquest even with the different changes they made.

If I continue to play a paladin in vanguard I dont want to be shoved into a tanking role above and beyond everyone else. I would much rather play a holy protector, saving everyone from random situations including the main tank.

I'm not saying paladins shouldnt be able to tank, just in most situations we should be the ones that step in and save the tank rather then the full time tank.

Guess this is getting long, hopefully that came out the way it sounds in my head. hehe

This post bothers me. No, actually, this post REALLY bothers me. (A little background, I played around 400 days as a paladin in EQ, starting about a month after launch until midway through GoD. I spent the last coupld of years as a hard core raider.)

First, the poster opens with a straw man argument worth of George Bush--just who is asking for paladins to be better tanks than warriors (or VSOH's other protective fighter classes). I am just hoping that, like the devs' stated goals, they will all be relatively equal as tanks. The dev's have stated that the main job of a paladin will be a protective fighter--why should they be less suited to that role than other classes tasked with the same job? While not explicitly stated, a paladin in EQ1 was primarily a tank also. The class was a failure in most eras since the devs there insisted on keeping their tanking abilities far below warriors (and yes, I largely blame Brad, whom I hope has learned his lesson).

Second, I had my fill of "I want to be the man who saves the day" malarkey back in EQ1, especially in the Kunark era. Back then, with comparable gear, we had considerably less mitigation, AC, HPs and did roughly half the DPS of warriors. Our spells were limited and our mana pool tiny. (And, although irrelevant here--I hope--we had a experience pnealty that also applied to our group members.) Paladins were the butt of every EQ joke, most famously when one leading guild (pretty sure it was AL or FoH) listed its requirment for paladin apps as level 61 (no, that is not a typo and yes, the level limit back then was 60). Nonetheless, there were people like the above poster spouting nonsense about us being the class that saves the day when the poo poo hit the fan. We couldn't tank well, we had few and poor spells that we could not cast often, and did the DPS of a fly, but gee whiz, were we the kings of crisis. It was nonsense then and likely will be nonsense in VSOH.

[Tazzrin Jaegernaut]

Paladins were the butt of every EQ joke

I disagree. I think Rangers were the butt of every EQ joke and every MMO they were involved in thereafter.

Furthermore, it has been stated that Paladins will find themselves in many ways to be the savior of whichever group they in up in. Their specialty will be intercepts and countering attacks.

Carry on.

[Aerian]

Well figure i could bring about my point aswell.


I myself have no specific experince from the paladin what concerns EQ1 , started my own path with MMO's in EQ2/WoW/Lineage 2/FFXI(not listed in a specific chronicle order) ect :P anyway

First of all , i' m very thrilled over the initial release information about the paladin class that has been given as it's leaves quite a bit of imagination on wheras how the Paladin will be able to tank and which encounters (Sanctify Corpse , totally cool heh ).

I myself would as some posters before me have posted to see the MT/tank roles switch depending on the type of fight that's ahead , where the paladins possible could be well , undead and such due to the paladin having more appropriate abilities to handle that certain situation possibly better then the other deffensive fighters and of course this would apply for the other deffensive classes aswell.

When not tanking , well , to be honest , the paladin still seems like a backbone class to have along , with his auras/rescues and such, an excellent supporter to say the least , so i dont belive that we'll end up un the short stick of it all , opposite if you ask me.

Even though i do belive that the general choice for the MT will be the warrior class, mostly seeing as the threat/mitigation for the warrior doesnt seem to be built around an specific encounter , a sort of all rounder to put it roughley , then again still a bit to go untill release heh .
Although as long as the paladin will be considered a tank not only by theory but in actual practic , just to mention a rough example with WoW , if you read through the paladin description you'd belive he was the undesputet tank of'em all...well , in the end all i practically did there was watching healthbars go up and down just an example where theory sort of backfired on one >_<

Like i said , to be able to -tank- not with any sidenotes or this or that heh but i'm quite certain that'll be sorted after have followed this game.

Only problem that i might have with this "certain encounter tanking" is the variety of tanking , with this i mean , say that they develop an undead based dungeon , the paladin's will have more of a tanking role their but later on if they choose to make create another dungeon which is say more high lvled then the previous one the paladin will be most likely stuck as a "mana sponge"(thanks for that wording Zenya , had a great laugh when i read that heh). With this brought up i just want to see a healty amount of variation of ecounters not just one calling of the other .

Anyway , i'm quite certain that we'll see the paladin in a tanking role if any a class to count on.

oh dear , went of track there it seems , apologies , tend to do that for some reason :/


Aerian

[Skellen]

I think the Paladin and any other tank class should be fully and equally capable of tanking any level-appropriate encounter (If you're thinking raiding, of course take into account being properly geared). The only difference is choice. If 99% of the paladins at release decide that all they want to do is be a back-up tank and manasponge well then so be it ... but if the beta testers do well then that decision is not going to be because the pally is a gimp class, it'll be because none of them could get beyond their preconceived stereotypes of the class from it's former game incarnations.

[Dredo]

The assumption that is flawed behind all of these post is as follows.

All damage will be done by melee, hence avoidence vs mitigation tank.

Now, it is not hard to fathom a mob where all of it's damage could be in fact an element of magic making it have absolutely no melee attack (FFXI had kirin which his melee attack was windbased and not physical and wow had storm heads where their melee attack was spitting lightning bolts out).

The fact is that inquistor is designed to deal with magical attacks which could be the mobs only form of damage which adds a demention to the debate that has yet been discussed.

A reasonable question is how do tanks weight in on all 3 levels, Mitigation, Avoidence, and resistance because it becomes very important when fighting mobs.