Possible idea for a 2h tanking concept

[Lusain]

This might be simple, and some DKs might not like it, but it's just an idea I had that would help us to become a class that is able to tank with 2handers, to give us that "role" we are all seeking, without sacrifing anything defensively.

Currently Shield of Fear, at DC5, at level 50, gives us a 20% block chance. A great shield gives us 20-24% block chance vs a high forties opponent (at least the shields I've seen). They stack.

Perhaps what we need is for shield of fear to no longer stack with a shield, but build in a shield-like block percentage BEFORE the 4% DC stacking. In other words, while we have SoF up, we can block as though we had SoF up pre-change, and as though we had equipped a middle-to-high end (without getting too crazy) shield.

To be extra clear:

Currently lets say I have a 20% block shield, something simple like a Yellow drop from a mid-to-high forties mob. Not too unrealistic.

SoF could have an added 20% block percentage, which does not stack with a shield.
SoF should still add the block % it currently adds based on DC.
20% + 4%/level of DC.

(If and only if it can be coded that way, ideally the 4%/level of DC could still stack with a shield, so that we aren't excluded from itemization if shields get very, very powerful as time goes by).

This effectively changes absolutely nothing for our class in terms of what we can block, but it solves any aggro problems we were having by allowing us to be the 2H tanking class.

It gives us a unique role.

It doesn't subtract or add anything to our class defensively.

It adds something significant to our aggro.

What sort of feedback to you have on this idea, folks?

[Meldryn]

It's not a bad idea, but I would see 2-handed tanking as being a more AA'ish sort of ability. Something along the lines of:

"When using a 2-handed weapon, the Dread Knight gains the block percentage of a shield of level and rarity equal to the weapon he is wielding."

It would give us the ability to tank with a 2-hander, and would also give is scaleability based on how good our weapon is.

[Azgod]

Or how about an epic 2-hander than can be split into two 1 handers.

[Lusain]

Why does it have to be an AA ability?

I'm really interested in people's feedback on this idea. Isn't this essentially the answer we've been looking for? To several questions, namely how to stay on par in the aggro and dps department without forcing crits, and an answer to the question, "What is our role?"

If it isn't, what am I missing?

[velzevul]

if i understand you correctly you are speaking of a selective buff, that would act one way if a shield is up, and another way if a shield is down, that is hard to code I think.

[Lusain]

Actually that was an addendum only if it was possible.

My suggestion is to simply have Shield of Fear add 20% more block. And not stack with a shield.

[Meldryn]

Originally Posted by Lusain

Why does it have to be an AA ability?

I'm really interested in people's feedback on this idea. Isn't this essentially the answer we've been looking for? To several questions, namely how to stay on par in the aggro and dps department without forcing crits, and an answer to the question, "What is our role?"

If it isn't, what am I missing?

I would suggest it being an AA for a number of reasons.

1. It would give us something to look forward to.
2. It is potentially imbalancing, and would quickly result in screams for nerfs if Paladins and Warriors are not given similar specialization options. Warriors being given bonus parry chance when dual wielding has been mentioned quite a bit.
3. It would allow it to be added as a separate skill, which would be less problematic coding-wise than trying to tack it onto an already solid skill.

[Axconis]

Easier solution (IMO)
#1 - AoD & Ebon Blade maintain as they are, change the meld stance to be our "2H catering" stance.
#2 - Remove "Shield of Fear", replace with 'Blade/weapon/whatever of Fear'.
#3 - "XXXXX of fear now gives +% chance PARRY instead of block.
#4 - Fix %'s on meld to start at 5....
#5 - Setup the "Retaliate" series to work off a parry instead of a block, leave that at no cycle, and drop vengeance to a 10second timer, but it maintains it's "blocked" requirement.

In my opinion, where does this concept put us?
What we lose... We lose the shield of fear across all stances. That's it.
What we gain... We gain the ability to feasibly wield a 2H weapon as a tank, relying on a parry skill rather than the melee mitigation. Lets look outside the "new meld" stance. "XXXX of fear" now giving parry. Ok, so your in AoD, have DC5, and your protection chain up. You've got your natural defense skills operating for mitigation and others, but now parry is your high point rather than block. Stay in the meld stance, and it's all about melee evasion.

Perhaps a little bit rambled as I'm rushing the post, but it also fits (IMO) with the "theme" of a DK, it makes us a sort of smart arse tank, parking on a mob and just parry/retaliate (not effective, just example), playing the "you can't hit me" game.

Rough idea, but I'd love it.

Edit cause I forgot this. I like the idea MORE because it doesn't involve adding anything at all. We don't get any more skills. But it changes some of the current ones, to give us more variety from other tanks, to make us more unique as a class. Take what we have and make it work better.

[Meldryn]

There are a few problems with that. One, Retaliate working off of parry instead of block would cripple sword and board. The whole reason we got Retaliate is because Vengeance is worthless.

Second, DK's becoming an evasion-based tank with Shadow Meld would be the nail in the coffin of us ever tanking on raids. Evasion tanks have never worked. At some point in a fight, we would get hit multiple times in a row and at that point, we're screwed. Mitigation smoothes out the damage so the healers don't have to alternate between doing nothing and healing frantically. It's why Monk tanks never work high end. They're fine for a while, and then the odds catch up with them and they're dead. Trust me, we do not want to be the evasion tank.

[Axconis]

That's why i'd endorse shortening up the timer on vengeance to 10secs, possibly back it off to 5. Tanking on raids... We only lose 1 thing, high block %, but we gain the exact same amount back in parry, so your total evasion % stays exactly the same, it just moves where the stat #'s are. Our chances as a raid tank are exactly the same. Same mit, same evasion. I find myself using shadowmeld more often than armour of darkness for tankign 6 dot mobs already due to the fact that the 15% doesn't save my bacon, the extra chance to mitigate by 100% does.

Lose 15% block, gain 15% parry, that's the only difference. Moving that evasion % however allows the use of a 2H weapon without getting eaten (as much).

Edited for missed point. I'd never push for us to be completely evasion BASED. AoD (concept of) is fine, defensive with +mit/hate. As above, the only change you'll see from all my changes, is moving 15% block (max) to 15% parry. Pushing meld back to it's former numbers will however make it a very viable option, prevention > cure. If you can run 50% evasion, with 50% mitigation, essentially your running 75% mit (1 in 2 hits, 50% of that... simple aye?). I would however push for us to have an evasion alternative.