What is the point?

Narnra · 05-25-2007, 07:56 AM

Ive been tanking for static group/guild since lvl 18. I have loved the way the class plays at 50, except maybe our rescues are a bit lacking, but Ive become a little distraught as of late. It feels that we are missing something as a class.

Now i dont want to seem whiny so no flames please, I love the DK and have loved tanking all the way to 50. The first thing I have noticed is that like the paladin we can't dual wield, but unlike both other defensive classes we get no shield bash. While this is not a huge deal it would be nice as I have been wielding sword and board almost exclusively since the 20s.

I am also beginning to feel we just dont generate the hate the others generate, at least warriors. I regularly group with a warrior who DPS for us wielding Djuuls great axe. I am wielding the heroic Afrit quest sword and he is still popping aggroe off me with ease when he is offensive, to the point that i can use scourge IV on him and he will pop it back before the CD is up. As such I decided to experiment. I took out my Djuuls axe, he is using longsword from graystone, went defensive and started wailing away. I never once got a mob to even look my way even if I attacked as soon as he did. The only diffrence in our gear is that he has the crit jewelry from lucent circle and I have the mitigation gear. But with me in defensive with Djuuls axe vs him in defensive with graystone longsword this disparity should not be.

I mean what is there to look forward to as a DK? Are there gonna be raid fights where we have to fear kite? If I wanted to fear kite I woulda rolled a necro. Im using my abilities to their fullest I just dont understand why it isnt effective. And no Im not thinking of quitting but I am thinking I may be better off leveling a paladin. Any thoughts on these issues from other DKs?

Meldryn · 05-25-2007, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narnra

The only diffrence in our gear is that he has the crit jewelry from lucent circle and I have the mitigation gear.

You've hit upon the crux of the matter. For whatever reason, the majority of agro tanks generate is from their finishers. This is all well and good, until you realize that Warriors have multiple abilities with inherently higher crit chance (35% on Kick, for example) and the ability to force a crit (Myrmidon's Gift). DK's have neither option, and therefore are at a disadvantage in agro generation because of our inferior crit rate.

However, I have noticed that since picking up a full set of the Lucent crit gear that my agro is much more consistent on my DK. All the mitigation in the world is useless if the mob will not stay on you. Once of the things that I am most hopeful for from our revamp is either a triggered crit ability, a high base crit chance ability, or both. Otherwise, we will be the only tank forgoing miti gear in place of crit gear.

Narnra · 05-25-2007, 10:29 AM

Which i thouroughly rediculous as I have geared myself to take the biggest hits I can. Being forced to egar in crit stuff and forgoe mit gear kinda defeats the entire prupose of me rolling a tank class. Now I dont have much issue keeping aggroe off DPSers but when grouped with another tank the discrepency is very obvious. I love the class but cant help buit getting the nagging feeling that we got some really cool abilities, and yet still have the short end of the stick. Long fights do seem different since the DC5 gives us an extra 15% hate, but how many fights have any of you seen where boss lives to have DC5 up?

edit: Slay ahs a high crit rate...lol very useful for tanking. /sarcasm off

Tborg · 05-25-2007, 10:46 AM

I don't have to fight again warrior for aggro to often, there not so many o at my level/server for now. I mostly use my 56.3 dps great maul, it generate enouth aggro so i can keep my rescue for when its needed.

But for those time i need to switch to 1h+shield i know it general much less hate and need to work a little more. I usully end up in pug with sorcerer 3-4 level higher then me and still good on keeping aggro (if the sorcerer know how to play is class).

Another rescue abilities will feel good if they don't want to give us a auto crit abilites like the warrior or higher chance of crit. I play with the symbole that add the dmg (forget name) i give a little boost on dmg, if you have a bard in group its really show up in the crit of a 56dps great maul :twisted: .

Cobalty2004 · 05-25-2007, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meldryn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narnra

The only diffrence in our gear is that he has the crit jewelry from lucent circle and I have the mitigation gear.

You've hit upon the crux of the matter. For whatever reason, the majority of agro tanks generate is from their finishers. This is all well and good, until you realize that Warriors have multiple abilities with inherently higher crit chance (35% on Kick, for example) and the ability to force a crit (Myrmidon's Gift). DK's have neither option, and therefore are at a disadvantage in agro generation because of our inferior crit rate.

However, I have noticed that since picking up a full set of the Lucent crit gear that my agro is much more consistent on my DK. All the mitigation in the world is useless if the mob will not stay on you. Once of the things that I am most hopeful for from our revamp is either a triggered crit ability, a high base crit chance ability, or both. Otherwise, we will be the only tank forgoing miti gear in place of crit gear.

You forget we cannot use our 400% + XXX finishers in D-stance. You can use Wrack/Ruin.

Warhead · 05-25-2007, 01:16 PM

Yes, if we are lucky enough to get a crit in. /sarcasm off

Narnra · 05-25-2007, 01:19 PM

We are talking lvl 50 mate, I have tried with my 90 dps 2h axe, and my 60 or so DPS longsword. And this isnt saying oh this is better oh DK si better put that away this is meant to be constructive. This is a well geared Dk and a well geared warrior at lvl 50. And after months of grouping together, DK is lacking whtther we can use our finisher in d stance when a warr cant, a warrior has hands down better aggroe at least until we hit DC 5 even then its a toss up as not many fights go that long.

Tborg · 05-25-2007, 01:37 PM

I know Warrior in dps mode will steal aggro from me without to much effort (same level with similar gear). There still some adjustment to do so we on par with Warrior or Paly, i just hope that once SEO will be in place that they will start working on those adjustment.

Last time we get love from dev's its was pretty good so i give them some credit that they will do it again.

Mortezzah · 05-25-2007, 01:42 PM

Are you checking to see if taunts are being part of macro'd attacks?

I've found I can draw aggro as a Warrior off a DK, and as a DK off Warrior, but I leverage some macro's when I'm trying to draw aggro or maintain it.

Then again, I'm using some of the best stuff possible (like a 97 DPS 2H or a 69 DPS Shortsword, lvl 50+ orange armor/shld, etc), and some of the folks I'm comparing against are not...

Bottom line -- I don't think Aggro should come from DPS (primarily), since I think Tanks should have similar Aggro/Mitigation -- and their differentiating aspects should come from utility (i.e. debuffs for DKs, buffs for Pals, DPS for Warriors?)....

Lusain · 05-25-2007, 05:36 PM

Are you really losing aggro while using a 90dps 2h axe?

I am in complete understanding of how we might struggle to keep up with a warrior who is dual wielding with our 1h+shield, as the shield really only gives access to more Reciprocates. As good as recip is, it doesn't make up for a 35%+ crit ability in kick, or the like.

But with a 90dps axe, I'm having a hard time seeing how you would lose aggro to a warrior who isn't trying to taunt. Are you absolutely sure on this one case? Obviously for the content you are doing, its preferable to be tanking with 1h+shield, but ... umm... a 90dps axe? really?