Now whats bugg'n'ya

[Lynxal]

Originally Posted by DrK

Shadow Incarnate - level 38 ability, maxes DC, cooldown ONE HOUR. When i first saw the description for this ability i was thinking it would have a refresh of like 5-10 minutes. So let me get this straight, a Paladin can max a dreadknight's DC, what, every two minutes? While a dk can do it once an hour? So Paladins know how to use my Dc better than me? Meh?

Wasn't this reduced to 30 minutes recently? Still too high though.

[DrK]

Originally Posted by Meldryn

1. Stances Scaling with DC

This is by far the most crippling problem with our class. Our stances will always be less effective than other tanks because we can't have stances as good as theirs when ours will eventually scale higher, leaving us overpowered. The best thing you could do for us in this department is take off the scaling.

I definitely understand where your coming from with this. However if they get DC fixed and tweak the stances up a little it hopefully won't be an issue anymore. The real problem is with the fact that DC is not working as intended.

Originally Posted by Meldryn

4. Symbols are Underpowered

60 point damage shield at level 50? Wow. Almost as pathetic as the 75 extra damage at DC 5. The only one worth using is Despair, and even then, 100hp is nothing at 50.

Definitely agree with this 100%. Our symbols do not scale with game content. This is an area that has not been tweaked since way back in beta and which needs adjustment.

Originally Posted by Meldryn

5. Ridiculous Cooldowns

Two hours on Hatred Incarnate. One hour on Aphotic Shield. Thirty minutes on Bane. Thirty minutes on Terror Incarnate. Ten minutes on Incantation of Hate. The list goes on. These are the kinds of cooldowns that belong on Harm Touch, which we do not, and will never have.

Bingo. We have winner!

[Warhead]

Shadow Incarnate is a 30 minute recast, or it was last night when I was messing with it. I still think its too long however.

[Keecho]

Under the De buffing area. Would it be possable to have it add the power to groiup mates also.

Keecho

[Toronth]

All of the above and then some...honestly i feel like if we are truly the debuff tank then our debuffs should add some hate and be much stronger than their current state...between spamming my debuff on a mob that constantly rebuffs itself im always scared of losing aggro so it gets to the point where i almost dont even use it in certain areas out of fear of a caster getting one shotted

[Warakus]

Stances.. we all agree need work.

Bane.. is a complete joke... on this we all agree.

Symbols really bother me that they dont scale up.

Debuffs need to be brought in line withe the game 48/55 isnt enough

remove our avoidance stance... make it a spell stance (dmg bonus to spells/mitigation and crit chance for those INT DKs) and distribute the accuracy to off and the other stuff to def.

Add more spell typs of abilities for Int DKs... no need to make all DE ect DKs eunichs! Fast low power aggro nukes.... another dot and maybe a bond (lifetap overtime) spell crit chain.


oh and give me a fargin pet! (no one agrees with this but I want a skelly pet I can give crap weapons and armor too!)

[Ralfazar]

Is this Shadow Incarnate supposed to be Terror Incarnate? Also 1 CD is pathetically useless for that skill, even 30 minutes is useless for what it does conisidering how our DC works/doesn't work.

[xythalia]

1. Cooldowns & Power. We have way too many cooldowns, and most of the cooldowns are out of balance according to their power.
Word of Doom - is fine as it is.
Bane - 6second cast, 30min cd, 5k damage, consumes dc 5
Incant of Hate - instant, 480 mana (!!), 10 minute cd (!!)
Hatred incarnate - instant, melee only buff, 2 hour cd
Terror incarnate - instant dc5, 30min cd*

it came to the point that the only reason I got 50 was so I could see my friend also get 50 (bloodmage) because I wanted to see what kind of god like abilities bloodmages got. Bane is weak, it need more damage / debuff / buff / aoe / something to make it worth casting. Incantation of Hate seems like a raid / named mob ability, with its long cd, and huge mana cost. I think it should either be 10 min cd and ~100 energy or 2 min cd and 480 energy, both makes the skill not worth casting unless you have quickening. Hatred incarnate is another 'raid boss' buff, which I think should be either a self -end cost buff, or a shorter cd (2 hours is way too long, unless it lasts like 10 minutes) Shadow Incarnate needs a much shorter cooldown (i'd say 5 minutes) if the dc system is 'working as intended', BUT if dc gets fixed so It is encounter based (like dc applying on every mob a bit per vexing strike or something) it is fine at 30 minutes.

2. Debuffs / Spell abilities. As it is now, a dk is a warrior with less damage buffs, and more flexible stances. Maybe it was not in the dev's view to be the debuffing tank (like most people, including myself were hoping), something needs to be changed so DK is not just a warrior whose dots takes mana instead of end. The joke with nearly every pally I meet is that I heal myself much better while their debuffs own mine. I see something wrong with that, I never rolled a dk to be a healbot to myself, but maybe others see it differently.

3. DC. Lets face it, this is supposed to be the backbone of our class. No group I've ever been in can even tell if this works. I know the -% damage works, and the +15% damage from dc5, as well as the +spiritual damage works. The -resist part, as well as the incoming crit .. (should it be +13% flat crit, or +13% of the party members crit rate, or what?), seem to be worthless (spell casters cant tell the difference). You can yak all you want about the human eye not being able to seem differences well, but over 50 levels, someone should notice something.

4. Symbols. Our symbols are weak. In the beginning they are decent, but overall compared to nearly every other 'symbol type' ours cost the most and give the least benefit. almost every other symbol type is upfront mana cost / used to be -20% max mana (which was taken away, I heard), while ours is 1 mana / sec. Suffering is weak (60damage at 50 is nothing. Every one elses is better.), Wrath is decent (for SoD. didn't it used to be +10% / +15% damage in beta, or was that a typo?), Despair is quite good, but we have no way to take advantage of stun (the damage absorb is only usefull while soloing, but the stun is nice)

5. The weakness / exploit system. Not only do we apply probably the most worthless weakness with our 2 / 3 skills (soul wracked) every other class has a skill they can spam which causes a weakness (ala Blade of Winter, like malice used to be). Why does ravaging darkness have a weakness over vexing strike? no one uses that skill for the damage it does. Harrow's weakness / exploit is pretty good. I was hoping that the weakness system would be something like the endowment system, where certain chains gave debuffs / buffs / effects, that any group of 3+ would have atleast one chain, no classes with the 'empty combinations' that there are now. The whole system needs to be revisited and revamped, it should make a difference when the group is trying to work together, rather then overall lowering everyone's dps and wasting time.

While these things seem extreme compared to the other defensive fighters, I believe that all of them need a boost. Tanks overall are weaker then most of the classes. I don't see why a ranger can tank like 70-80% as well as me, yet do 2-3x the damage, with better utility, and buffs for the entire group.

[Biowolf]

1) My beef is global refresh shade times... is there a way just to give each ability their own shade... with out having to wait for the global (one ability shades all abilities) not to inlude the chains of course... I noticed the shading on the rescues in battle can be quirky, maybe its just me

2) Nexus of hatred doesn't work correctly still does not work everytime

3) Feign death is interesting for a tank but why not just add that it can target any person in group... (it could save deep dungeon group if u can save the healer or yourself) but pls be sure that the affected player can stand back up at will...

4) Debuff Tank? Ok if warriors (i forget) and paladins (deny life) get a class defining debuff... then i would like DK's to get a Silence ability then.... ae Dot? ae lifetap dot?

5) Our agro holding abilities have been nerfed a bit too low... and umm I thought all hate gaining abilities by all tanks were based on str... does not appear to be the case with DK's

[Lusain]

Next to DC (which it sounds like you already have a solution in the works for) scaling of a lot of our skills is, in my opinion, one of the biggest problems right now.

This includes, but is not limited to:

Symbol line
Torture
Devour line

Devour Strength would be nice if it was noticeable. At level 10, I remember doing a very long, very involved naked CR into a newb dungeon with my fists and torture as my sources of damage. Torture stacked nicely for the large energy investment at that level. At level 42, where I'm at now, torture doesn't even do 1/10th of a bubble of a mob's hp. It needs to scale a LOT better than it currently does.

Likewise, a lot of mobs as you move up to 40+ hit for over 1k. Symbol of Despair absorbs 70 (I think its 70) damage every 5 seconds at my level. When I first got it, it was like having a nice little extra boost to mitigation (I looked at it like a form or regen). Now, it's utterly useless. Either it needs to scale Ala Dark Ward (perhaps have it take 5-10% of a hit every 5 seconds instead of a set number) or the number needs to scale WAY higher than it does now (3x its current level at 50, or thereabouts).

The other two symbols are suspect, as well. The damage shield one is very subpar, but at least it hits all mobs now. The +damage one is *alright* but fairly underwhelming when compared to where despair should be, for example.

Last thing I think we need is straight up: more abilities. Particularly with a lot of our abilities scaling so poorly, I want options. I think I have a wider range of abilities that are used regularly on my level 20 disciple than I do on my 42 dk, and there's something suspect about that. Give us another main attack (an alternative to Vexing) that is based on DC instead of adding to DC. Give us another symbol line that makes us really think about which symbol we want to turn on.