DK's -- feedback for upgrades/changes/wish list

[Mortezzah]

I'd like to hear suggestions folks have based on the current state of the DK.

My thoughts/wish list on DKish abilities/changes:

#1 give DK's an auto-crit ability, similar to Paladins and Warriors. 1 minute refresh (still would be less DPS than warriors who have another 400% finisher, and get 2 crit generating abilities).

#2 significantly increase hate in defensive stance -- I don't like it when tanks steal aggro without trying to -- 2 guys, same gear, same level, one in defensive one in offensive -- the defensive should always win (even with crits on offensive).

#3 give DK's another snap-aggro tool -- or decrease the refresh to 30 seconds.

#4 Fundamentally change DC so that you build it up overtime and lose it gradually while out of battle -- not reset per battle.

#5 Bane/Doom/etc. These need to be significantly boosted.

#6 Overall -- more debuffing options to really make DK the "debuff" defensive tank.

#7 I'd like to see upgrades to our Invis/Speed buff.

#8 FD?

My 1 cp.

[Toronth]

Basically everything above poster mentioned...

1)Hate from our abilities need to be increased to keep up with that of other classes

2)Slight Dmg Increase and hate added to our Blackwind line or add hate and lower timer

3) Lower timer and mana cost of Ominous Fate

4) Fix Nexus of Hatred please for gods sakes

[Meldryn]

1. We desperately need an ability that triggers a crit. A one minute cooldown is fine, but we need the ability.

2. Our stances need to stop scaling with DC. It leaves us almost on par at DC 5, and woefully underpowered at any other level of DC. In other words, 90% of the game.

3. Bane. Need I say more.

4. Debuffs. If Warriors are going to be high dps tanks and Paladins are going to get more utility than Jesus Christ, we should have debuffs that matter.

5. Feign Death. It fits the class, and there is no real balance issue with us having it. Then again, I can just hear the warriors on SV now.... "It's not fair, DK's can wipe their agro and we can't. It makes us inferior tanks..... somehow." /rant off :wink:

6. While not imperative, I would appreciate some kind of upgrade to our invis at higher levels.

7. Last, but not least, we need a direction. I thought I knew what DK's were supposed to be, but our debuff tank role seems to be non-existant now. What are we supposed to be?

[Tasai]

Everything posted above plus the removal of the DC animation that overwrites combat

[Acris]

Except Perhaps this:

Remove the stupid ar$$e combat animation for DC. It doesnt flow well with normal game play, sometimes making you think you missed a chain or crit chance.

Meldryn,

You brought up something to me that is indeed very interesting, I had to stop and think about it for a moment and as a matter of fact spend time to reply. From the onset I was under the impression that DK would be that debuff, and you would "Dread" fighting a DK. They have watered down our debuffs and as a general rule of thumb the DC bonus we get arent even enough at DC5 to make things unbalanced or to trivialize content. However it is (if its actually being calculated) nice on paper.

Whats the problem? Folks I group with perhaps not the static folks but normal everyday folks dont even know what DC does. Its not something you can see or test. It doesnt show up on the mob other than a debuff icon, but its buggy enough that most folks wont think anything of it.

Comparing DC to a few judgements from Paladins. IMO the the sub level 20 judgements from a paladin are considerably better than our debuffs. Meaning they are resisted less (My conj is 2 from max at 36). Their debuffs seem to resist less and are applied to the mob, vs ours seemingly resisted alot however always applying the buff to ourselves.

There are so many things that could be said about the issues with DK, and frankly there are no issues at all at the same time. Why? Because of the exact statements that you just made.

Sigil is not being forthcoming with the vision of player skills. DK has no vision at this point. We are Evil, no we are misled, no we are debuffers with no debuff abilities. We offer utility? No we are self centered buffers offering little to the group in utility dispersment. We have a unique catagory in the Tank department, ( REMOVE all Thoughts on this in terms of Mit/agro, I mean we have something unique?) Sure we can invis, fear... these things help us tank so much better.....

Personally I wish they would remove Lull from all tanks, offensive included. Put the Lull abilities back on the classes its dangerous to lull with. Give the tanks something to do like... Tank.. instead of pull utilities.

DK.. where are we heading.. who knows. Feign Death I would *die* for, do I think it fights my idea of what a DreadKnight is. Yes. Do I think its over powered no. Put it on a 1-5 minute reuse, with resist and conditions like all other FD classes. Its not perfect but adds to utility to the group.

Either GREATLY increase DC bonuses on Stances or just remove them all together (Give us a horrid watered down stance that does all the same features without having DC control it) Nearly every fight I see bar a mini/boss mob is never going to be DC5 less I really push to have DC up and running. Yet honestly I cant see DC5 doing that much more for me.

Give DK a reason to use a STUPID SHIELD, Or if your not going to give us a Shield ability then give use increased abilities with 2h XX weapons. We have zero base benefit atm to picking up a shield other than solid mitigation on a larger fight. Changes made to the paladin class have not made them overpowered, in regards to shields, but perhaps a bit tedious reapplying buffs. But they gave them a reason to use a shield. The concept of controled stuns is more powerful than they realise I think. My self buff stun procs are to erratic to be considered on par with a shield ability.

Give DK direction, call us evil or call us mislead I dont give a hoot. But the biggest issue Sigil has created here is they left the door open for interretation of what a DK is. Therefore they limited the *explaination* of what skill sets fit or do not fit a DK. Well we cant give them black magic stuffs cause thats too evil... Yeah ok... What the heck is Black wind a jolly feelgood waff of my ar$$e? No its evil. Get off the middle line and call us evil and give us something to be feared in combat.

Recent Counter attacks are/were much needed, the replacement of an attack which does damage and builds hate on a counter is SOOO much of an improvement vs a non group friendly stun.

But there are things lacking all over for DK, most of which dont seem to bother folks.

Well I am ranting at this point so going to lay off... but yes DK needs direction before you can say what we need for changes.

And please feel free to flame away, 25th Paladin before respeccing to DK.

-Acris
36 DK Hilsbury

[Azgod]

I want a spell /conjur binky.

That way we can kill 2 birds with one stone, level up conjuration while handing out baby soothers to warriors, pallies and assorted DK's depending on who got luv.

[DrK]

Originally Posted by Mortezzah

I'd like to hear suggestions folks have based on the current state of the DK.

My thoughts/wish list on DKish abilities/changes:

#1 give DK's an auto-crit ability, similar to Paladins and Warriors. 1 minute refresh (still would be less DPS than warriors who have another 400% finisher, and get 2 crit generating abilities).

#2 significantly increase hate in defensive stance -- I don't like it when tanks steal aggro without trying to -- 2 guys, same gear, same level, one in defensive one in offensive -- the defensive should always win (even with crits on offensive).

#3 give DK's another snap-aggro tool -- or decrease the refresh to 30 seconds.

#4 Fundamentally change DC so that you build it up overtime and lose it gradually while out of battle -- not reset per battle.

#5 Bane/Doom/etc. These need to be significantly boosted.

#6 Overall -- more debuffing options to really make DK the "debuff" defensive tank.

#7 I'd like to see upgrades to our Invis/Speed buff.

#8 FD?

My 1 cp.

I agree with these and would like to emphasize it.



I would add to the list:


Refrsh timers. Our refresh timers are out of control.

Hatred Incarnate - TWO HOURS ?!?! this ability should have a refresh of MINUTES not HOURS.

Aphotic shield - 1. this ability is broken and needs to be fixed, 2. the refresh is one hours, it should be 5-10 minutes like the other tanks invul-abilities.

Bane - the refresh on this could potentialy be left at one hour if it is a) made to not completely suckass like it currently does and b) actually be made usefull enough to be worth the wait.

One thing about this ability definately MUST be changed - the cast time. No tank can cast a spell with a 6 second cast time in this came, it's impossible and in that time we can do more damage with our weapon than the ability does.


Debuffs> I thought Drk's were supposed to be the 'debuffing tank'? Because right now we're not, the other tanks have equal/better debuffs to us.

[b]Our stat debuffs[/b] used to be good but now have been nerfed to the point that they are nothing more than an occasional stat buff for the dk.

The energy cost on these needs to be drastically lowered so that we can use them every fight, not just every 5 minutes. The stat debuf needs to be adjusted back up so that it's actually an amount that matters (if you don't want them to buff the dk's stats any more than they allready do just increase the debuff on the mob, not the portioned buffed on the dk).

The cast time on these needs to be lowered a bit as well so that we can actually use them in a fight.


The effectiveness of our enchantment stripping line needs to be increased as well and the cost lowered as right now it takes far too many casts to get it to work and then the mobs just constantly rebuff themselves.

[Warakus]

Shield tanking: Its the only way to go on the hard stuff. I can tank just about anything with a shield. Now that I have a decent (Heroic) 1h its not so bad... I rely on the ractive hit with aggro alot. Its more work then with a 2h but its definately possible to keep aggro as long as other members use de-aggros and do what they need to do... so in essence Im happy with how we tank that way.

DC5: It says 13% more chance to crit ... but with about a 20% or more chance buffed I dont crit 1/3 hits with DC5 on the mob. I dont think it is working as intended.
Also its very rare to get DC5 unless I spam our ability that raises it.. which I do and it still takes time if you want to keep aggro.

To me what I would like to see improved are our stances. They seem subpar.

Also our symbols arent really up to speed with the endgame. At 50 a 100hp absorb rune once every 5 seconds is really weak. I mean it should probably be 300 ish or so. pretty much I think all the runes need to be re tooled... even the dmg one adds 75 damage at DC 5 is pretty weak for having to build to DC5.... maybe it should multiply with eahc level of DC 15 dc1, 30 dc2, 60 dc3, 120 dc4, 240 dc 5.... not sure how that would work but it seems more in tune with the game at 50. Realizing of course we allmost never hit dc5 in most encoutners. dmg shield the same.. have it go up as we go higher in DC.

Backlash.. cool concept but under powered for a 10 second thing.. maybe make it a reflect? I mean then timing would be essential and it would be a really good thing to time perfectly and having a sorc or some counter speller calling out the spell ID would me it more interesting in group encounters.

Our AE rescue not working well.

Add a forced AE PBAOE tuant to all tanks.

Like to see a bond spell introduced like our new mana drain crit chain. Maybe a spell crit chain for this for int DKs.. give them a reason to play DE or whatever they chose (would be uselss for an orc like me but would make sense to at least have it for those high int/wis DKs) and maybe a couple of other things that make wis int DKs more viable. I mean Pallies have the option to switch up gear and go more wis/vit to boost power/healing ect... shouldnt DKs too? Will also stop the cookie cutter ORC/HG DKs being rolled off the aseembly line.

FD or a pet... would love it... either... Healers get pets omg! Good ones too! give us a little booty pet! (sorry I loved the SK pet from eq before it got buffed... it was just a fun comical thing for me)

Thats all I can think of for now for a wish list... biggest thing is our stances and mitigation for me... those should be looked at first. Then DC.

[Eizen]

Im far from 50 yet...so I havnt seen 'it all'...but here is my wishlist..sorts.

1. Dread Knight.... Where is the Dread? I want more....sinister evil..so to speak. Black smoke, red eyes, demons from hell...Satan and all his little wizards...

2. A pet. Doesnt have to be anything fancy...Just like the 'dot' the EverQuest, SK's skeleton pet was/is. A dark shadowy figure following you around...maybe even uncontrolable...it just attacks what attacks you.

3. Increase in the rather pathetic Words of Doom. Should (in my 'book') be A. Unresistable. B. Increased _atleast_ 3 times in damage done. As it is now
when it hits it hardly leaves a mark on a 3-dot mob even.

4. CTD bugs gone (My crashing has gone totally i
nsane after the 1818 patch. Im talking 2-5 times/hour).

5. More debuffs (Maybe build-in with the Aura, like slow, ae-snare..sorts.

Just a few..


// 41 DK, Thunderaxe

[Tborg]

on a more practical side, i would love some change on simple thing. I use to be able to hit key 1 (attack bound key) and its activated my attack, what ever i was waiting for global refresh to come back. Now i have to wait that the last refresh is done so i can start attacking.

I am not sure it was like that before but, if i target mob, hit melee attack and then cast steal str my melee attack will be reset to stop attack. I find it very annoying, maybe there a way to remove that but i don't know how.

Having a steal strt/Vit and Int/Wis group buff 5 min will be nice. Even if not very long it will add something to the group.