1817 patch hate based on str instead of int

[Spite]

As a dark elf dread knight, I definitely feel this is a slap in the face for those of us who did not create a one dimensional tank.

The int/hate relationship was something that I enjoyed, as I felt it added a level of depth to the game which others were lacking. It also allowed me to compete with other purely STR focused tanks, as they could out damage me, but I could maintain the status quo via extra hate generation.

To me, it makes sense that non-damage hate is generated via intelligence, as you use your wits to provoke your foe, instead of sheer brute force.

I hope that Xaicies will understand the position of his int race dread knight colleagues, and go in to bat for us.

[Feynir]

Originally Posted by pawn

(and i bet you the hate component of Torture and Incatation of Hate are also going to stay based on int)

they better. i'm int specced and i quite hate this change especially since provoke and torture are counted as spells. needs dev clarification.

[xythalia]

Originally Posted by pawn

Int still isnt totally useless:

Cull
Torture
Incantation of Hate
Black Wind
Word of Doom
Bane

All the damage of these spells are based on INT. (and i bet you the hate component of Torture and Incatation of Hate are also going to stay based on int)

no one ever said int was useless simply that if these changes go through, there will only be one 'stat' that is considered and sought on armor until it is maxed.

At 50 I have a tad (1-2%) over 100% spell damage with devour mind, with a group that rises to ~110 - 113%, and with a bard cull does some very big hits (for some reason when I was grouped with a bard my cull was hitting all the time for ~1500+), though their songs lag the hell out of people. Being 'int spec' is what, 10% (at best)max damage in a group setting?

Incantation of Hate, thats around 600 damage every 10 minutes, WoD 400 damage every 5 minutes, torture (by far our best dot) 400 over 24s, bane 500 over 30, BW 200 or so over 20s, you catch my drift? Int as a stat to invest in is poor overall because our damage spells are very limited, but people didn't mind putting some points in because of the target, minor spell damage, and increased hate, in addition to how good/common int buffs are compared to str buffs. Have you ever seen a warrior / paladin put int? I never have.

We are the only tanks that will put points into int, so this debate is ONLY from our class. This makes it a very touchy subject - if we all oppose it we deny that right from the other tanks... yet if we support it str will be 'the' stat.

BTW I have around 4/level in int, so I'm probably not the most extreme int spec, but I do have a fair amount invested. I chose Human because I knew sigil had no idea what they were doing with the balance of the stats

We will wait and see, but I hope when our class is polished the stats will all have a place.

[DrK]

Originally Posted by Inruku

I'll explain DrK.

Everyone maxes STR if they know whats what. Everyone.

So lets look across the board at all the races. Significant disparity between a dark elf and a lesser giant right? Dark elf could still compete because hate was based on INT.

So that lesser giant gets free STR points and can cap it higher than a dark elf. That dark elf gets free INT and can cap it higher than the lesser giant. However, both of these 2 races MAX their STR. Neither will max their INT. The Dark Elf will probably have a higher INT though because of the points that are added automatically. So now comparatively the lesser giant has higher HP pool, higher dmg, higher block and the dark elf has a bit higher hate. At LEAST choosing dark elf didn't make you a fool completely.

With this change you will be a fool NOT to max your STR, and I suspect some out there still have not. What happens now is: the natural high STR races will have more HP, more hate (significant), more block and no drawbacks to picking that race. Dark elves now have subpar STR, subpar CON and less block/mit.

Across the board they have just rewarded everyone who rolled the cookie cutter races. They are now the supreme races by far and everyone who rolled something else is simply subpar. Grats me on Dex (useless vs the other stats) and int!

Just keep laying down for these kinds of changes, and soon itll be EQ1 again.

Honestly, the racial stat distributions and caps don't really mean jack.

And really it doesn't matter that much how you distribute your stats.

The primary determining factors in this game are gear and buffs.


Having said that, yes everyone who plays a defensive fighter should keep their str high, but you don't have to 'max it', not by far.


At this point I'm dumping all of my points into int because my str is very high and I want to balance out my spell damage.

But really, with gear and buffs, it doesn't matter.

[Inruku]

So what you're telling me is that if a Lesser Giant DK has the same exact gear as me (say the best gear available) it wont matter?

He still has 123 More STR than me. After all buffs, after all adjustments, he is still that much better than me.

This isnt like its something that only a few DK will do, STR is THE stat to have.

/shrug

just seems a little unfair to make 1 stat so important

[Xaices]

From my understanding INT was not suppose to affect hate abilities. Actualy I disputed the theory that int affected hate abilites against the community earlier on, because I asked avair when the reports started comming in that INT effects hate abilities, and he said no INT does not. Well it actualy did and now they are fixing it to what it was suppose to be.

[Spite]

Xaice's,

While this may have been the intention, it certainly wasn't the case when a lot us us made our characters. Nor does it make the intention fair or correct.

As class lead, I hope you will bring the valid concerns of your non-str race based class members to Avair's attention.

[Feynir]

Originally Posted by Xaices

From my understanding INT was not suppose to affect hate abilities. Actualy I disputed the theory that int affected hate abilites against the community earlier on, because I asked avair when the reports started comming in that INT effects hate abilities, and he said no INT does not. Well it actualy did and now they are fixing it to what it was suppose to be.

yes i understand this but does this also affect spells with hate? it seems weird when torture and provoke which are spells have their hate element affected by str instead or int.

i would like you to suggest to avair that spells with hate should have their hate portions affected by int while melee abilities with hate like incite will have their hate affected by str.

that would give us int over str specced dks more diversity. not everyone likes being cookie cutter.

[Valamir]

i agree that this is a very bad change, expecially considering that most dk races have no +str bonuses

with str that gives

- best dps
- best defence
- hate bonuses

i see no reason to roll any other race than an orc with +3 str/lv while all other races will just be gimp knights compared to them

with a difference of over 100str the efficency hit for low str races/templates is huge and things will become even worse when the calles will go in tweaking phase as the comparsions will be made with the best +str templates.

it also makes no sense that our hate generating abilites are spells and they will get hate bonus from str... is a bit like to make sorc spells to have dmg mod on str instead of int... doesn't seem that right...

also note that str gave alredy a higher hate generation just due to higher dps generated so to have a bonus of hate on int was just a compensation for that loss, expecially considering that our spells have gimp dps (lv 50 spells with high int that tick for 250-300 is just a laughtable dmg)


i agree with other posters the game is taking a direction that i don't like much, it was supposed to be a 3rd generation MMO with a more interactive combat system and char able to be effective with many different builts instead is turning out to be just another EQ clone with 1-2 skill to max and a lot of mindless buttonmashing :roll:

[Warhead]

Actually orcs receive 2 str and 2 con per level. They also get the mitigation bonus for being large race. Their racial ability can be triggered every 15 minutes and if used with WoD is a HUGE sometimes complete heal. If WoD is resisted than you have blown your racial... oh well!