New Warrior Changes, Xaices, Please Clarify

[Meldryn]

These are some upcoming warrior changes that Venge was kind enough to post on the Silky Venom boards. I've bolded the ones that concern me the most.

- Penalties on both Offensive and Defensive stances have been removed.
- Waylay is now a neutral ability. Recast timer has been lowered to 8 seconds.
- Savage Cut's endurance cost has been reduced to 22.
- Infuriating Shot's endurance cost has been reduced to 18.
- Battle cries are now abled to be used outside of combat.
- Taunting strength will now be based off of the attribute of Strength. Not Intelligence.
- Strength will now effect all hate generating abilities of the warrior. Rejoice!
- Taunting Strike's endurance cost has been reduced to 20.
- Roar of Fury's recast timer has been reduced to 30 seconds from 1 minute.
- Roar of Fury's hate generation has been increased.
- Power Attack's energy cost has been halved.
- Power Attack is now only usable while in-combat.
- Power Attack will now cause the warrior to gain Unyielding Might if used continuously for 15 seconds.
- Unyielding Might further increases the warrior's damage output.
- Unyielding Might's duration has been set for 5 minutes.
- Shout of Defiance's hate generation has been increased slightly.
- Strike Now will now effect spells.
- Charge will now increase spell damage.
- Group Commands will now effect the warrior that casted it.
- Defenseless can now be used in either Offensive or Defensive Stance.
- Cleave can now be used in either Offensive or Defensive Stance.
- New Defensive Stance chain: Shield of Maiming
- Shield of Maiming will be avaliable starting at level 12.
- Shield of Maiming: High damage while lowering your enemy's damage by a flat number for 15 seconds. No recast timer.
- Battle Frenzy's endurance cost is now set to 10 like other chains.
- Wardar's Bulwark I will no longer decrease mitigation upon hits. (Good find guys!)
- Shield of Maiming's stage 2 finisher will be increased damage and a 4 second stun component.
- New Ability Line: Endurance to Hit Point Regeneration
- Details Posting soon.

Are they making int useless for tanks, or is it simply warriors that get off easy by not having to put points into it? This change severely dumbs down the game. Before you actually had to worry about balancing a number of different stats in order to maintain your effectiveness. Now you can simply pour all of your points into str, dex, and leftover in con with no downside at all. Add to that the fact that Paladins and DK's will continue to have to throw points into int, or risk having our damage and hate spells be reduced in effectiveness. Very poor move on Sigil's part.

The stun isn't a huge deal, but it is somewhat irritating to have our only stun a set number of hits, and therefore useless in groups.

Any changes on the horizon for DK's Xaices? :wink:

Before anyone says it, I'm not complaining that warriors are getting buffed. I'm complaining that Sigil is changing fundamental game mechanics that people based their characters on, and in a way that hurts 2 classes while buffing the other. The int change is a slap in the face to DK's and Paladins.

[Contemptuous]

Warriors don't cast spells, they melee.
DKs and Pals cast spells AND melee, making them more versatile hyrbid-type characters. Imo it'd make sense for warriors to not have to dump into int, they don't have spells that it boosts the damage on, so it's a horrible waste of points for them just to be able to taunt.

For the record, I play a DK, not a warrior.

[Meldryn]

Actual patch notes found here. http://www.vanguardspheres.com/forum...notes-4-a.html
It appears that all taunt-type abilites now work off str rather than int. Nice of them to make this universal, but it still doesn't change the fact that DK's and Paladins are stuck needing points in Int to keep all of their skills effective.

[Warhead]

There is that hyrbrid word again!! ugh.. Oh and yes the game is rapidly becoming a very EASY game.

[garath]

We're back to the worst stances again.

[Lynxal]

Originally Posted by Contemptuous

Warriors don't cast spells, they melee.
DKs and Pals cast spells AND melee, making them more versatile hyrbid-type characters.

That is thinking from previous games. Warriors use energy in VG. Just because they aren't called spells, they are spell equivelants based on the same energy system we have to endure. All classes are balanced around the use of both endurance and energy to perform equivelant functions.

In this game everyone is a "hybrid."

[Xaices]

Here are some of my concerns comming out that which is similar to what I wrote to Avair earlier today. I have yet to recieve a reply back.

Penalties on both Offensive and Defensive stances have been removed.
Ok So The Dread Knight had its Negative Effect Taken off of Armor of Darkness of Lowering DMG, which was acceptable because both the Warrior and the Paladin had a little extra defensive bonus on their defence stance/form/aura So we got a little more dmg/hate. How ever Now the Warriors Defence Stance does not or will not have the negative dmg effect on their defensive stance and they still will have the added % to block. I question this entirely.


- Waylay is now a neutral ability. Recast timer has been lowered to 8 seconds.

- Savage Cut's endurance cost has been reduced to 22.
Warrior level 28 - Savage Cut's Causes your target to bleed, taking 337-359 damage over 20 seconds.
Dread Knight level 26 Torture Deals - 80-89 damage over 24 seconds and adds hate every 4 seconds.
Both of these are DoT's How ever you can see a Warriors DMG per Cost is Far Greater than the Dread Knights. I think Tourture Should have a far greater DMG than that of what it has now in comparison.

- Infuriating Shot's endurance cost has been reduced to 18.
The warriors dmg/hate pull tool. The DK's Torture, again The DMG needs to be increased on Torture in comparsion.

- Battle cries are now abled to be used outside of combat.
Understandable, Both Warriors and Paladins are more group benificial than the Dread Knight. The Dread Knight has more of a Lone Soldier charateristic, The battle commander that takes charge and leads by example controling the fight himself.

- Taunting strength will now be based off of the attribute of Strength. Not Intelligence.
Unfamiliar with this one, no comment.


- Strength will now effect all hate generating abilities of the warrior. Rejoice!
Ok been talking about this for a while. So is this going accross the board for all tanks. It very well should. INT should not modify a Tanks Hate generation. (INQ maybe but its not out yet)

- Taunting Strike's endurance cost has been reduced to 20.
Just another Hate ability the Warrior has compared to DK's (Incite Inflame Chain? Torture?).

- Roar of Fury's recast timer has been reduced to 30 seconds from 1 minute.
- Roar of Fury's hate generation has been increased.
Warrior Level 48 This battle cry hits all nearby opponents, adding 692 hate. Only one battle cry can be performed every 60 seconds. Of which that description will have even more hate and be usable every 30 sec. Comparable to what, The DK does not have a AoE hate ability, Hell our AoE Rescue does not even work.

- Power Attack's energy cost has been halved.
- Power Attack is now only usable while in-combat.
- Power Attack will now cause the warrior to gain Unyielding Might if used continuously for 15 seconds.
Yet another ability that raises dmg, Warrior lvl 46 Increases your melee damage by 18% while active. So comparibly how much dmg intake is the DK reducing if the Warrior is Increasing.

- Unyielding Might further increases the warrior's damage output.
- Unyielding Might's duration has been set for 5 minutes.
I am unfamiliar with this ability or how it works, how ever I see more dmg output, again how much dmg intake is the DK reducing.

- Shout of Defiance's hate generation has been increased slightly.
Another hate ability compared to (Provoke? Incite? Torure?)

- Strike Now will now effect spells.

- Charge will now increase spell damage.
Unfamiliar does this increase group spell dmg, where DK only increase grp spiritual dmg?

- Group Commands will now effect the warrior that casted it.

- Defenseless can now be used in either Offensive or Defensive Stance.

- Cleave can now be used in either Offensive or Defensive Stance.

- New Defensive Stance chain: Shield of Maiming.
- Shield of Maiming will be avaliable starting at level 12.
- Shield of Maiming: High damage while lowering your enemy's damage by a flat number for 15 seconds. No recast timer.
So let me get this strait. Warrior can increase party dmg across the board, have more hate generating abilities inclueding AoE hate generation, Have multiple ways in which to increase their dmg output, and now they can lower the dmg intake.

[DrK]

Once again all dreadknight stances need a boost in comparison to the other defensive fighters stances.


I hope that dreadknights are going to get a really nice overhaul at some point. Although we have gotten some decent fixes and tweaks, it's getting really frustrating that we still have so much broken, so many underpowered or useless abilities and that our stances are so sucky in comparison to the other defensive fighters.

It's also getting really frustrating having other classes blatantly getting abilities that do not fit their themes at all (Deny Life) and which obviously ought to be dk abilities or are given abilities that are identical but better than ones that are supposed to be our class defining abilities (Paladins and Their nuke line, Bards and their new ability that is identical to our new version of slay but does more damage and which no mobs are immune to).

[velzevul]

sigil is rapidly losing me as a customer.

they got a speechless person making changes, without a vision of what classes should compare like. I can bare with this kind of changes, if there was communication on what will be done in the future. But there is none. They do shit, without telling their customer base, without indicating anything, and half the time ninja style. Miscommunications between Sigil's player relation base, GM base, developer base, and Brad are more and more apparent.

It is sad to be watching a ship I was hoping would carry me for 5 years go down in flames just like that. From a new great game of a generation, VG:SoH is being reduced to WoW's difficulty+faction farming. None of the great mechanics they claim or have claimed to have, have been implemented, or are even on the table.

Yeah, this is the "I am taking a break from the game" post I guess...
At least for a couple of weeks. Which could potentially become a couple of month ==> years ==> forever.

I still remain interested in the game as a whole just because I am too used to browsing these forums and chatting with people... but active playing I am disgusted with.

P.S. what really did it for me, is that me and friends started a new questline in Gorgalok swamps in South West Thestra... I've been doing that quest line, and you know what I see? I see Wardship all over again, with higher level armor, + a few %s here and there.

Seamlessness - promised - not delivered
Raids - promised - not delivered
New Combat System/Stacks - promised - not delivered
Synergetic Combat - promised - I wouldn't call vulnerabilities a system. I dont give a flying piece of dung for extra 50 damage once in a while.
Caravans - promised - not delivered
Flying Mounts - promised - not delivered
FELLOWSHIPS - promised - not delivered
[b]Class Balance within Archetype [b] - promised - I am seeing a roller coaster ride of every class. there is no balance or equality.
Ships - promised - piss poor implementation
Player Run cities - promised - I don't even see it on horizon. Hell I havn't even seen 1 player built house on my server
Crafting - promised valuable and fun - it is valuable, no doubt.. fun - hell no it is not. Doing same thing for hours on end for weeks and months is NOT fun. it is same thing, literally. the only difference is that 0->20 it is 4 steps, 20->30 it is 5 steps, 30-40-> it is 6 steps, and so on. Complications is jazz. They do not contribute to flavor, nor is there a system where working certain type of recipees there is complications structure. The only fun of crafting is having your name on a kickass item, but than you sell that item, and that's the end of it.
diplomacy gets its use in adventuring - promised - not yet
item set bonuses, like from woSm set - promised - not yet.



List can go on, and all of you can add to it in your mind.

You will still see me on the boards, but those are some of the reasons why I do not feel like playing any more.

[Mortezzah]

Originally Posted by DrK

Once again all dreadknight stances need a boost in comparison to the other defensive fighters stances.


I hope that dreadknights are going to get a really nice overhaul at some point. Although we have gotten some decent fixes and tweaks, it's getting really frustrating that we still have so much broken, so many underpowered or useless abilities and that our stances are so sucky in comparison to the other defensive fighters.

It's also getting really frustrating having other classes blatantly getting abilities that do not fit their themes at all (Deny Life) and which obviously ought to be dk abilities or are given abilities that are identical but better than ones that are supposed to be our class defining abilities (Paladins and Their nuke line, Bards and their new ability that is identical to our new version of slay but does more damage and which no mobs are immune to).

You forget Necro's with their 40% slay <g> Rofl, on Necros in general

That being said -- I play a 42 Warrior and a 37 DK. A lot of the things listed in those vnotes fall under the "useless" category (i.e. basically one of those meaningless changes that seems like something but in reality isn't).

Those commands that increase group damage -- work for 8 seconds then go on refresh -- and even tho they are listed as increasing 15% damage output -- our parsers only showed about a 2% increase. Its something that most Warriors don't even use anymore, because its that useless.

Before these changes the DK was lagging behind the Warrior in Aggro, and I think they now fall even further behind. IMHO, that is a bad move.

However, the DK BLOWS the Warrior away in versatility.. The things I can do with my DK -- man, so much better than my Warrior. I think nothing will be gained from saying "look, their DOT does BLAH ours does BLAH", because there are about 20 more things a DK gets that the Warrior doesn't get. I think it would be much better to focus on what you want, and argue from that perspective.

So, from MY perspective playing a DK, the things I'd want the most:

#1 an auto-crit ability

#2 another offensive snap-aggro (or better yet, 1/2 the current refresh on it)

#3 significantly increase hate generation in defensive modes

Sure, there are LOTS of other things I'd want to see (like DC remaining at a certain level, and not going to 0 between mobs; more upgrades; FD; etc etc), but the top 3 I think could be argued for and achieved -- and would be signficant.

Even with the changes they are putting on Test, I still feel the DK blows away the Warrior. However, the Warrior revamp isn't done, so I'll decide which I take to 50 first after seeing how they finish them off.

You give me the above 3 on the DK, and no matter what they give my Warrior I won't go back The DK is that much better.