New Warrior Changes, Xaices, Please Clarify

[Inruku]

Let me first clarify that this isnt about warrior love, they needed help, but I cannot help but feel underwhelmed at our changes in comparison.

So basically the STR across the board adding to hate has just destroyed anyone who chose anything other than an ORC/Giant or Dwarf.

Awesome, that was one of the things I complimented them on the most. Making this a game that you had to choose stats wisely. EVERYONE maxes STR for dmg, that part takes care of itself, but as far as DK hate goes, it should have stayed INT.

I've been with VG since beta 1.5ish (didnt actually get the download working til about 2.0) and it has become harder for me to log on day to day. I really should have just rolled a monk

Lets recap:

Bane - Still worthless

Word of Doom - made useful but it still isn't as good as it should be

Cull - only useful if it crits

Torture - an absolute joke of a dot/hate spell, it scales up a bit but tends to do the exact same dmg to the new higher level mobs.

actually I'll stop there, theres just too much that makes me feel subpar.

At this rate we'll see EQ1 again, where you were put on the sidelines if you rolled one of the other tanking classes or the inappropriate race. I was talking to another DK the other day about how much fun it was to know you were able to do something other than spec pure CON and be far more valuable.

A few small fixes and the rest left unadressed. I'm so close to just rerolling or saying screw it.

I'm probably being a bit shisty about all of this, and I know I may be overreacting... but I can see where all of this is going. Lets just hope my guild allows me to contribute dmg with my 2h, but I wont expect it if they have valid classes for the 24 slots. (unless of course they make raids need offtanks :roll: )

[Venge]

Hmmm

[Inruku]

Hmmmmm back @ ya

[labrat]

i really do have to laugh at all this attacking sigil about how crappy they run the show. i clearly remember a bunch of people early on attacking me out right about how i was so open about sigil just sucking it up and how poorly dread was treated in game.

oh how time change i tell you.

this game is just a stop gap to my ever increasing boredom with mmo sword and boards. they are all been there done that and not a single new mmo in the near future will rewrite the genre.

worst of all sigil has set the gold standard of what not to do just as much as blizzard has set the standard of what to do right.

[Inruku]

So instead of moving on, you waste your time here?

What flavor cookie do you want? STFU or STFU?

[Riggsen]

Sure, the DK still needs some tuning. But it isn't a fundamentally flawed class like the Warrior is.

Honestly, if you haven't played a warrior into the high 40s, you're speaking out of your ass when you say we don't need every ounce of these changes, if not more.

And sure, I'm pushing the barrow of the class that I play, but I'd like to think we can keep this relatively objective. The Warriors who've managed to stick with the class til now are generally a pretty tough bunch, because there's been an awful lot to dislike since release. But we're not out to make Warriors the be all and end all raid tank like they have been in other games. We just want to have a playable class. At the moment we're still getting groups because there are a shortage of tanks on pretty much every server, and because anyone who isn't playing an endgame Warrior doesn't know how hard it is to play one. It's highly premature to get class envy about stuff that hasn't even been released yet, and is so sorely needed it's not funny.

If you have to get class envy, take a look at the Paladin. Their lull alone makes them hands down the best pulling class in the game.

All the DK skills talked about here definitely need buffing. But do we ask that you guys get nerfed when you can solo 4-dot mobs? No, we just ask that we get our turn. I've seen DKs soloing the T5 armour quest, while I'm stuck LFG and end up giving up and harvesting for half a night. The new changes seem to be aimed at:

1/ Giving the Warrior a chance to solo 3-dots like pretty much any other class in the game. Warriors will still be the worst solo class apart from Rogues (I think they take the cake for most unloved class of all), but at least we'll have the option of soloing without it being a complete waste of time.

2/ Making defensive stance viable.

The Warrior's defensive stance is complete bollocks at the moment. Why else would you see level 50 Warriors tanking in their offensive stance even though it has bugged mitigation that makes it hard to get to 30% mit fully buffed with shield? Are all Warriors stupid? You get muppets in every class, but the reality is that we can't hold aggro in defensive because at level our DPS in defensive is about the same as a necro pet (and yes, this has been parsed). We have a grand total of one dedicated attack in defensive stance called Taunting Strike, which actually hits for less than auto-attack. Kick and Shield Bash are the only other two attacks in defensive, which do pitiful damage as well. Their only purpose is to chain two finishers on 30s cooldowns - one of which produces only slightly more hate than a DKs Torture (and it's a finisher!), the other a mitigation buff that adds 20% mit but is bugged so you can actually end up with less mitigation than you started with. Honestly if the new finisher in defensive stance doesn't shit ice cream, Warriors are still going to be tanking in offensive stance.

Granted, DKs still need a big buff on their AoE hate generation. Apart from their debuffs and self-preservation skills, DKs if anything should be the kings of aggro generation, since the Paladins have their buffs/utility, Warrior mit debuff/stun.

Let's not forget Warrior commands are still staying absolutely useless. They're still going to be a whopping 8s duration. Would you like to have ALL your spells taken away in exchange for a couple of 8s commands? How would you go with no lifetap, no debuffs, no AOE lifetap, no invis?

Can we not at least see how these changes pan out before you start asking that Warriors stay at ground zero?

[velzevul]

Originally Posted by labrat

i really do have to laugh at all this attacking sigil about how crappy they run the show. i clearly remember a bunch of people early on attacking me out right about how i was so open about sigil just sucking it up and how poorly dread was treated in game.

oh how time change i tell you.

this game is just a stop gap to my ever increasing boredom with mmo sword and boards. they are all been there done that and not a single new mmo in the near future will rewrite the genre.

worst of all sigil has set the gold standard of what not to do just as much as blizzard has set the standard of what to do right.

i wouldn't say that. back than it looked like they had it moving in the right direction. but as of this patch i no longer think so. you were just more pessimistic from the start, and i was more optimistic. but thanks to Sigil's hard work that optimism is very much gone.

Still going to watch for a bit what turns out of this game.

[Meldryn]

Originally Posted by Riggsen

Can we not at least see how these changes pan out before you start asking that Warriors stay at ground zero?

No one is saying warriors don't need fixes. We're saying that some of their "fixes" completely unbalance them in comparison to Dk's.

Your Offensive:

20% extra damage
15% accuracy
no drawback whatsoever

Our Offensive
10% damage
5% higher endurance costs

Your Defensive
15% mitigation
15% block
40% hate

Our Defensive
9.5% mitigation (they still can't seem to fix this bug)
30% hate

Anyone else seeing a disparity here?

PS Mention Shadow Meld or %'s scaling with DC and 5,000 bitter DK's will cull you simultaneously. :wink:

[Venge]

Originally Posted by Meldryn

No one is saying warriors don't need fixes. We're saying that some of their "fixes" completely unbalance them in comparison to Dk's.

Your Offensive:

20% extra damage
15% accuracy
no drawback whatsoever

Our Offensive
10% damage
5% higher endurance costs

Your Defensive
15% mitigation - Its like 14.2%
15% block - Its 5% Block
40% hate - Only to melee damage

Our Defensive
9.5% mitigation (they still can't seem to fix this bug)
30% hate

Anyone else seeing a disparity here?

PS Mention Shadow Meld or %'s scaling with DC and 5,000 bitter DK's will cull you simultaneously. :wink:

If we could use all of our abilities in any chain, then I would go for a revert to the older stances. However making we are the only tank that can only use certain abilities in certain stances and have the least number of versatility amongst the stances.

[Meldryn]

Originally Posted by Venge

If we could use all of our abilities in any chain, then I would go for a revert to the older stances. However making we are the only tank that can only use certain abilities in certain stances and have the least number of versatility amongst the stances.

Venge, I have a lot of respect for you, but talking about versatility amongst stances to a DK is sort of like telling someone in the middle of summer that they're lucky someone pissed all over them because it's hot outside. Shadow Meld is a complete and utter joke. No one will ever use this stance in its current form, which leaves DK's with two stances, both of which are inferior to Warrior stances in every way. If there is a balance here somewhere, by all means point it out. I'm simply not seeing it.