@ Xaices & Avair - Skill Change Request

[velzevul]

Guys,

you know I have been vocal about not simplifying a class, also specifically about Cull stun removal as a request.

I think I have found a middle ground sorts of, which may be apreciated by both harder and easier players.


could you make Cull exploit the stun condition to a large degree? If mob unstunned, Cull does X dmg, if mob is stunned, Cull does 1.3X damage, to inspire players to try and get that mob stunned.

We currently as a class have no exploits we can generate and take advantage of ourselves. Malice depends on chill which is ranger for example, and Harrow depends on bleeding which is war/rogue as examples. this would give us a nice exploit which we can take advantage of ourselves.

And maybe lower the casting time just a tad to 1 second, to get it into the time frame of Ominous Fate: GCD+CullCastingTime


What do you think?

Thanks

[DrK]

I have to disagree, I like Cull the way it is now.

My only beef with it is that I think that it ought to drain a little bit more life for the current energy cost.



I do agree that we need to be able to set up/exploit our own weaknesses but what you are describing is actually not taking part of that system, you are still simply putting a pre-req on cull.


An example of allowing us to set up our own exploit would be giving us an ability that puts the bleed effect on a foe which would allow us to exploit that with harrow for a larger lifetap.

[velzevul]

Originally Posted by DrK

I have to disagree, I like Cull the way it is now.

My only beef with it is that I think that it ought to drain a little bit more life for the current energy cost.



I do agree that we need to be able to set up/exploit our own weaknesses but what you are describing is actually not taking part of that system, you are still simply putting a pre-req on cull.


An example of allowing us to set up our own exploit would be giving us an ability that puts the bleed effect on a foe which would allow us to exploit that with harrow for a larger lifetap.

what is a difference between having ability that allows to put bleeding and using harrow and using ominous fate to put stun and than using cull to exploit it?

i do not see how you are disagreeing with me DRK.

[Xaices]

Avair is off working on another class atm. I understand your disapointment with Cull not having the stun component. So were Avair and I. I liked because of the dificulty and Avair well he kept saying he liked the "Flavor" it added.

Towards the end of the night we were discussing the probability of bringing in some things for twitch players and those that like a little more chalenge in playing a class. Avair said he would think on it a while and see what he could come up with and he stated he has some more things comming in for the DK later on when he has more time to be crative rather than fixing bugs and issues.

For now you are going to have to live with the changes that went live, and the changes to the forms that didn't make it in for this patch.

We probably will not get another round of fixes for another couple of weeks as they cycle through the other classes. You may see a fix here, a change there, but nothing like this patch untill its our turn in the rotation again.

[Zuul]

I think that's a great approach Velzevul. I'd really like to see us get more chances to use the weakness system.

[velzevul]

Originally Posted by Xaices

Avair is off working on another class atm. I understand your disapointment with Cull not having the stun component. So were Avair and I. I liked because of the dificulty and Avair well he kept saying he liked the "Flavor" it added.

Towards the end of the night we were discussing the probability of bringing in some things for twitch players and those that like a little more chalenge in playing a class. Avair said he would think on it a while and see what he could come up with and he stated he has some more things comming in for the DK later on when he has more time to be crative rather than fixing bugs and issues.

For now you are going to have to live with the changes that went live, and the changes to the forms that didn't make it in for this patch.

We probably will not get another round of fixes for another couple of weeks as they cycle through the other classes. You may see a fix here, a change there, but nothing like this patch untill its our turn in the rotation again.

Don't get me wrong Xaices, I am not disappointed by a fact of a patch at all, it is great that they are working on things and a lot of issues got "addressed". What I am surprised at, is that almost everything "addressed" didn't drive the point home except for WoD which was unanimous "holy moley yes" from the community.

Don't make a mistake, this is not a major DRK_goes_better patch. This is a touch up patch, where devs put certain key words in patch notes to say they are working on it, which they did. And stopped promptly midway, before the ball hit the goals.

I see a divide between how Cull should be in the community even though the part that wants a harder to use Cull is in the minority apparently, but I suggested a way above to make it appeal to both parties.

I see that Shield/Bastion chain got "addressed" but that "address" essentially nerfed it. It doesn't appeal anymore to me to use it on regular mobs, because it simply doesn't provide a benefit from mob to mob. Unless a fight lasts 3-4 minutes like a major dungeon boss, I don't see this chain as useful outside of the 30 second span of combatting that one mob. To make it useful - make sure it stays at the highest level of DC that the buff "saw" - aka fighting a mob at DC1, than at DC5, than at DC4 should in the end result in me having DC5 defensive buffs, not DC0 defensive buffs because all my mobs are dead.

I see that stances got "addressed" but the horse wasn't beaten to death. mitigation is still not full 10% apparently, and our balance stance got essentially "nerfed" from starting with 5% to starting with 1% and growing to 5%. Even though it may be working now, the fact that Devs didn't put the right % starts makes it not appealing in the meantime. I think that was an honest mistake and they will correct it to 5-10% depending on DC. But fact is, that right now, that stance is still idle and not appealing.

Most of these things are likely unintentional and result of rushing through putting things live... but we all know how hard it is to reverse changes no matter how small. Developers think they are done, and never return to the issue. I think it is a great patch, but overall I am not a happy camper with most of these changes. I think our class was better before they screwed with Slay and than took on the road with all these changes.


P.S. this info comes from other players posting, i havn't logged on yet today actually. But I trust people reported true information on stances.

[xythalia]

Actually, with the change I was hoping they were going to do this.

I don't know about you guys - but I've been looking forward for the day they completely revamp and finish the weakness / exploit system to make it work well then any class revamp :lol:

Right now it just seems like something tacked on that doesn't matter much.

[Garn]

I still hope they don't jack with Cull.

All they have to do is use the current weakness system in place.

That is what seperates the button mashers from those who want the bonuses of paying attnetion.

It is what it was desinged for and it was/is a great idea. They simply need to expand on it now to make it worthwhile enough to pay attention.

Simple things like having 3+ chains linked to some really nice damage or even short term group buffs.

The system allows for a world of possibilities the way it sits right now. Hell you already get double damage from malice everytime you click it if you work with your local ranger or anyone else who can chill mobs.

I think alot of what some people forget is this is an MMO. It has to survive, and to do so it must have things given to it's playbase over many years. If they throw us every bone we want right up front we will have nothing left.

Why do you think there are almost no group buff spells in a single click? Answer is it is a very easy thing to add later in an update that gives all the buffers a really nice addition yet changes nothing in the dynamics of the game.

Right now we have a rather limited Lifetap that we can use at our discretion. Leave it be I say. And maybe in an expansion we will get a situation or chain based Lifetap that full heals us and stuns the mob and makes him run home to mommy sucking his thumb.

All I'm saying is try and remember this is the very very!!! beggining of things. They are suposed to be straight forward and trivialish by nature of game design.

It gives us all things to look forward to and anticipate.

In time things will get beefed up, revamped, replaced and removed from youtr hotkey because you have a shiny new skill that does all that and more!

[DrK]

Originally Posted by velzevul

what is a difference between having ability that allows to put bleeding and using harrow and using ominous fate to put stun and than using cull to exploit it?

i do not see how you are disagreeing with me DRK.

I'm going to have renege on what I said, I didn't read your post thoroughly enough.

I thought you were asking for the stun pre-req to be put back on cull which I am against.

The Idea of having cull be able to exploit the stunned condition is actually a good one that would being back that tactical attribute to the ability while allowing it to remain viable for group use.

I understand why people liked the stun pre-req on cull, the problem is that it just plain can't work withthe way stuns in this game function. It just makes the ability impossible to use in a group situation, which sucks.


I think allowing cull to exploit the stunned condition would be a happy middle ground for everyone.

If they do that however, they are going to have to remove the cast time again as theres no way your going to get the ability off in time to take advantage of the stun.

Perhaps it should take advantage of bleeding instead (which would make more sense as it's a lifetap) and we should be given ability which applies the bleeding effect on a mob. This would let us use the exploit for cull and harrow.

[Garn]

Now thats more like it DrK. the bleeding Idea is much better.

Put lethargic on Cull and make it exploit Bleed. That would make perfect sense.

If you just lost alot of HP you would be lethargic and if your bleeding Cull would suck even more life from you.

Xacies I would realy like to see what Aviar and you thought of this Idea.

Edit**

If we needed to give up a weakness spell I would vote for loosing it off harrow. We almost never use it in a group situation in a way that it gets taken advantage of anyway. We all know the moving mobs around in group or raid situations is normaly a no no.