Aggro: Group level spread vs npc level.

[Vaedar]

I did a search but didn't find what I am looking for. Also, this is not a rant or whine.

Lately, i've been grouping with others who are all higher level than me. For purposes of this discussion let's assume i'm level 31 and my group consist of:

35 Cleric
32 Rogue
36 Ranger
35 Ranger
34 Ranger

We're fighting level 35-37 4dot npcs.

I cannot hold aggro, period. It's silly for me to even try. Defensive/Offensive/Sword+Shield/2H it doesn't matter. The npcs just ping pong among the rangers and cleric. All I succeed in doing is rescue tanking. I am using Nusen, Longsword of the Ages...a ~38 DPS weapon.

Is this common or am I doing something wrong? :evil:

Thanks.

[Garn]

Something is wrong unless your rangers are just trying to get agro causing your cleric to over-heal which in return causes cleric to get agro. Tell your rangers to sit out a few fights and see how that goes as to test you versus the cleric.

Make sure your cleric isnt using thier rescue type ability. It's a yellow icon with scrossed swords and lists itself as a rune. Thats guarenteed agro on the cleric for a set number of swings (don;t recall exactly the number)

**EDIT**

OH WOW!~ I completely misread your level... thats the problem far and away. You should be having a very hard time hitting these guys at all. and if/when ya do your not going to hit them that hard.

[velzevul]

Vaedar, your problem is the following:

you are very low level compare to mobs, and as such you have very low melee dps with your weapon, because you miss a lot, and it is mitigated a lot.

I believe best thing you can do for yourself right now, is one of 2 things:

1) reallocate your points to dext/intel, to give yourself higher crit ratios when you do hit to do more dmg, compounded by higher spell taunt ratings (spamming them of course). Also avoid debuffing mob, as that spends a casting cycle. And tell your grp that they need to give you 5-10 seconds before they start blasting.


2) reallocate your points into STR/DEX/INT, emphasis on strength as much as you can, AND ALSO it is very mandatory that you get loaded on gear with +1hs or +2hs, and than use that respective weapon. This will help close the gap between your level and mob's level so you hit for much more. For example there is an axe level 42 I believe, that has +80some on it for 2hs. That closes 8level gap between you and the mob you are trying to hit, enabling your raw melee dps to go up, helping a LOT with aggro. Also have hotkeys telling your group members to back off and to attack respectively. Group coordination is key to aggro.

Let us know how it goes, hope this helps.

[Garn]

Originally Posted by velzevul

Vaedar, your problem is the following:

you are very low level compare to mobs, and as such you have very low melee dps with your weapon, because you miss a lot, and it is mitigated a lot.

I believe best thing you can do for yourself right now, is one of 2 things:

1) reallocate your points to dext/intel, to give yourself higher crit ratios when you do hit to do more dmg, compounded by higher spell taunt ratings (spamming them of course). Also avoid debuffing mob, as that spends a casting cycle. And tell your grp that they need to give you 5-10 seconds before they start blasting.


2) reallocate your points into STR/DEX/INT, emphasis on strength as much as you can, AND ALSO it is very mandatory that you get loaded on gear with +1hs or +2hs, and than use that respective weapon. This will help close the gap between your level and mob's level so you hit for much more. For example there is an axe level 42 I believe, that has +80some on it for 2hs. That closes 8level gap between you and the mob you are trying to hit, enabling your raw melee dps to go up, helping a LOT with aggro. Also have hotkeys telling your group members to back off and to attack respectively. Group coordination is key to aggro.

Let us know how it goes, hope this helps.

That's very good advice if your really intent on trying to make this group function with you as the tank. with your level difference versus the mobs however I'm not sure it would be best for you to tank anyway. I really don't know to be honest buy I would strat paying attention to what your getting hit for per round and maybe compare that with the hihest level ranger.

Might be better off letting them tank as a whole, Easier for the cleric if they are taking less damage. Also it's alot easier for the cleric to focus on a single target with HoT's and heals versus healing all over the place.

Might try having another ranger and the cleric both HoT the highest level ranger on incoming and just let him tank.

once again, I don't know the numbers on this idea but you might want to test it out.

[velzevul]

Originally Posted by Garn

That's very good advice if your really intent on trying to make this group function with you as the tank. with your level difference versus the mobs however I'm not sure it would be best for you to tank anyway. I really don't know to be honest buy I would strat paying attention to what your getting hit for per round and maybe compare that with the hihest level ranger.

Might be better off letting them tank as a whole, Easier for the cleric if they are taking less damage. Also it's alot easier for the cleric to focus on a single target with HoT's and heals versus healing all over the place.

Might try having another ranger and the cleric both HoT the highest level ranger on incoming and just let him tank.

once again, I don't know the numbers on this idea but you might want to test it out.

yes that is a great advice too. If higher level ranger tanks, that leaves you in a offtank role, which you may be able to do relatively well, just watch out for adds coming, and I would even go as far as to say if you want to keep grouping with them, take a few days off work, declare yourself sick, and close that gap in levels at least down to 2-3 levels. Because in my experience, once the gap is 5levels+, you will be falling behind even faster, and eventually part with that group. Why? because one time they will make a group and get a level 40 in it, and than you can't join it anymore. And this will be occuring only more and more often.

[Valtain]

Here is the easiest solution, because I have been in this situation for a while.

In agreement with Velsevul. Your biggest benifit is going to be +1hs or +2 hs gear. IF you are fighting mobs that much higher then you then you are more then likely going to want to use a Sword and sheild.

First things first. If you are using a longsowrd ditch that for a short sword if possible. Shortswords have +5% crit change on them which will allow you to use your Incite chain more often.

Look at it this way in regards to the +1hs or 2hs. Your character recieves +10 skill to your base weapon abilities per level. Example: Level 40 has 400 max for 1hs and 2hs.

When you get a weapon with say +25 1hs and your level 32 your basically swinging a weapon with a skill of a level 34.5 chance at hit. This makes he biggest difference in closing the level gap.

[Vaedar]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. The +wield suggestion is good and something I didn't think about. Bottom line though, I think, is just closing the level gap which is what I suspected to begin with.

[imported_Judas]

Vaedar,

Personally I do not think you should do anything to your stat allocation other tahn what you percieve your character to be come end game. Stick to your plan on what you want to be.

If you are fighting mobs that are purple with people in your group that are able to hit them 80% of the time when your only able to hit them 20% of the time there is nothing you can do to prevent the others in your group from pulling agro from you. As a matter of fact I dont think you ever establish agro under those conditions. I would be willing to bet one of the rangers pulls agro from you within the first 5 seconds of the fight and then the ping poning begins. The cleric is now quite possibly group healing which is a huge agro magnet.

A good rule of thumb when it comes to tanking is that you try your best to stay higher than the people you group with OR you fight mobs you can consistently hit. There are so many options on what you might be come level 50 you can be a MT you can be a MA or you dcan simply be a damage dealing melee class. The question is what do you want to be at that point and whatever you decide you want to shoot for thats how you should allocate your points. But to give you advice on how to succeed on the scenario you mentioned in the original post would be worthless cause I can tell you from experience your never going to hold agro in those conditions, ever.

[Vaedar]

Originally Posted by Judas

A good rule of thumb when it comes to tanking is that you try your best to stay higher than the people you group with OR you fight mobs you can consistently hit. There are so many options on what you might be come level 50 you can be a MT you can be a MA or you dcan simply be a damage dealing melee class. The question is what do you want to be at that point and whatever you decide you want to shoot for thats how you should allocate your points. But to give you advice on how to succeed on the scenario you mentioned in the original post would be worthless cause I can tell you from experience your never going to hold agro in those conditions, ever.

That's pretty much the answer I was expecting.

I was able to close the gap to 2 levels this weekend and things are pretty much back to normal. I only had to rescue 3-4 times last night fighting yellow/red mobs. A few more levels and I should be back to nearly 100% aggro. :wink:

[garath]

With my guild I reguarly end up tanking mobs 5-6 levels higher than me (i.e. level 35 tanking in Graystone with the rest of the party being 40-42). I do relatively well. A lot of the suggestions in this thread are great but I'll reiterate with everything I do.

a) use a two hander. You aren't going to hit often so make those hits count. Also your abilities are mostly weapon % for damage and again the 2 hander will make your few hits count more.

b) use a + skill armor. I keep my infineum cloak just for this purpose. I throw it on whenever I am tanking mobs 5-6 levels higher. The +37 2 handed slashing makes a big difference.

c) Instruct your group to let you establish aggro. Don't have them start laying into the mob until you've done a couple round of hits. A few early misses and you'll be struggling the entire fight. However, if you establish early, you will have a much easier time of it. Start off with a torture, hit malice, vexing strike then spam your DC raising ability (I can't remember the name offhand). Get to DC4 as quickly as possible and you will have an easier time holding aggro. Use Provoke EVERY time its up. Get an int buff if possible.

d) Whenever you crit use Incite/Inflame. The damage of Wrack/Ruin isn't nearly as good for hate as the incite/inflame combo.

Other than that, keep popping the rescues and help your group learn their limits. They will have to back off on the DPS for sure but you can do it. I have been able to successfully tank a 4 dot mob up to 6 levels higher. 7 is the magic number, I just can't hit it. No way for me to do it.

edit: and without a doubt, be in defensive.