What is your mitigation? - Page 2

Razlath · 03-13-2007, 11:42 AM

The main reason I was unsure is because both numbers are there, and they aren't the same. I did notice though that the one from AC always seems to be lower than the one from Defense, so I wasn't quite sure if one was rolling into the other, or what.

I never was sure which to look at or compare. ;}

Ishma · 03-13-2007, 11:45 AM

OK, if you all are getting mitigation numbers like that I think I would like to see some screenies. I am 41 and have pretty decent gear and the best mitigation I can get is about 35% in a group. That is Bastion up at DC5. Of course I have 7300 defense and near 2500 AC. I thought I was doing very well, till I saw these numbers.

Niteflyx · 03-13-2007, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishma

OK, if you all are getting mitigation numbers like that I think I would like to see some screenies. I am 41 and have pretty decent gear and the best mitigation I can get is about 35% in a group. That is Bastion up at DC5. Of course I have 7300 defense and near 2500 AC. I thought I was doing very well, till I saw these numbers.

Well I'm assuming that was in a group situation. Self buffed (i.e. nothing) I have around 2100-2200 ac I think, plus my DE buff thats around 2400-2500 or so. If I fire off a DB (DC4) I'm looking at 3200ish AC. I'm level 37 with yellows and blues.

If you have Cleric+Shaman buffs, you can jack your AC up to 5k easily.

Razlath · 03-13-2007, 12:22 PM

Plus, if some are adding the numbers together and others not, it could produce an apples to oranges effect. ;}

Warakus · 03-13-2007, 03:01 PM

This would be for a dev to respond too... I had some other person tell me thats how it works. Now the number for defensive Mitigation and the number for AC mitigation are 2 completely different numbers.

2 racial mitgation Orc
2 item mitigation
4% items and racial.

Defensive stance 10% ( I allways forget the actual stance names)

thats 14% not counting armor or buffs.

Now when I hit my def stance.... The mitigation does not go up... but in defense it does. Again I have 2 seperate numbers. Most times by adding these 2 up I end up with around 60 ish in def... which seems right to me.

Defense cant be our total mit becuase it can be lower then AC.... that doesnt make sense... if it was allways higher then it seems like then it might be your total mitgation. I could be wrong but it made sense to me when someone told me. and I could be wrong... but honestly.. I seem to mitgate just fine.. that being one of the very few issues.. I have no issue with. I can tank just fine and have plenty of working abilities to help me survive lots of damage.

hopefully someone can give a real answer to the mitigation puzzle.

Niteflyx · 03-13-2007, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warakus

This would be for a dev to respond too... I had some other person tell me thats how it works. Now the number for defensive Mitigation and the number for AC mitigation are 2 completely different numbers.

2 racial mitgation Orc
2 item mitigation
4% items and racial.

Defensive stance 10% ( I allways forget the actual stance names)

thats 14% not counting armor or buffs.

Now when I hit my def stance.... The mitigation does not go up... but in defense it does. Again I have 2 seperate numbers. Most times by adding these 2 up I end up with around 60 ish in def... which seems right to me.

Defense cant be our total mit becuase it can be lower then AC.... that doesnt make sense... if it was allways higher then it seems like then it might be your total mitgation. I could be wrong but it made sense to me when someone told me. and I could be wrong... but honestly.. I seem to mitgate just fine.. that being one of the very few issues.. I have no issue with. I can tank just fine and have plenty of working abilities to help me survive lots of damage.

hopefully someone can give a real answer to the mitigation puzzle.

The defensive stance adds mitigation..not AC..so your armor class will NOT go up. The difference between tooltip AC mitigation and tooltip defense mitigation is usually small, which leads me to believe that it's a bug in some calculation, like how our other % spells don't always give a straight 10% but a 9.6% or something.

The 'Defense Rating' is just a sum of all of your defensive stats. I really don't think you add your 'AC mitigation' with your 'defensive mitigation'. A dev responded before, I'm pretty sure, that your denfensive mitigation is a sum of all of your mitigation.

"Now when I hit my def stance.... The mitigation does not go up... but in defense it does. Again I have 2 seperate numbers. Most times by adding these 2 up I end up with around 60 ish in def... which seems right to me. "

AoD does not add to your AC by 10%, just your final mitigation value (which is better anyway).

So pretty much, I think it would be silly to just add the two and call that your mitigation.. The tooltip in 'defense rating' for melee mitigation is your mitigation percentage, taking into account items, racials, AC and stances, I believe.

Razlath · 03-13-2007, 03:26 PM

If memory serves me correctly, mine are very different. Much more than a minor calculation change. I will check my numbers tonight, and maybe see if I can try some controlled tests. On a side note, I am almost certain my AC number is lower than my defense number. Which is the opposite of what Warukus said I believe.

I am not saying if either way is correct, as I really don't know. Hopefully I can find a test situation I am happy with and see what it yeilds.

velzevul · 03-13-2007, 03:32 PM

Warakus, do you have the Infenium plate helm? or Heroic bracer from there? they make it easy to test your theory.

Current theory on these boards that has a lot of support, is that your AC rating provides your 'raw' mitigation, while your Defense stat shows your 'adjusted' mitigation components, and those include things such as resists, block, avoidance, raw mitigation, etc.

Try this out:

1) look at your AC and Defense in Off stance, and Def stance. AC doesn't change, while Defense goes up by roughly 10% melee mitigation

2) put on and off any piece of gear with +X% mitigation on it. your AC will only be affected by AC of that item, and thus your 'raw' mitigation will only change in terms of AC variance b/c of item switch. However your Defense rating will distinctively show your mitigation go up by X + AC variance due to item ACs switch.

3) have a piece of gear on you, check Defense rating, than switch with comparable piece of gear but with a lot of resist stats on it - your defense will go up dramatically, but its mitigation portion will not change.

Basing on this, I think consensus is, that mitigation from AC rolls into mitigation from Defense, and Defense mitigation piece is the one that ultimately tanks should be judged against 1 another. Not defense rating overall, because it depends too much on resists and other things. However, Defense rating IS useful in terms of comparing because it includes so many things, you could argue that you can judge overall quality of gear by your total defense rating unbuffed.

I am not sure how level influences these numbers, except that with level included, your numbers will track how well you perform for your level range. So a lvl 25 DRK with mitigation 30% in def stance can be compared to lvl 45 DRK with mitigation 30% in def stance, however their Defense ratings over all are very different because of all the other things, and of course context of content they are able to play is dramatically different.

Lynxal · 03-13-2007, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niteflyx

The 'Defense Rating' is just a sum of all of your defensive stats. I really don't think you add your 'AC mitigation' with your 'defensive mitigation'. A dev responded before, I'm pretty sure, that your denfensive mitigation is a sum of all of your mitigation.

I also remember seeing that specific quote from a dev when all the changes were made to block/parry/dodge. I just can't find it right now. I even thought for a second it was also in the patch notes themselelves but all I could find was the direct references to avoidance which you could use as a guide to argue that AC and mit and defense mit don't get added together.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________
The tool tip for the block, dodge and parry skill now display the current maximum you have from the skill. Previously this value would change when you did things like equip a shield.
- Your fully modified block, dodge and parry values are now found as part of the defense tool tip. This includes your innate chance from skill and attribute plus other effects like a shield, combat form or buff. Since not every class can do each only the appropriate values are displayed. No display value means there is no contribution. For example a Sorcerer would see no block portion.
- The strength attribute tool tip now displays your actual innate block chance (if you have the skill.)
- The dexterity attribute tool tip now displays your actual innate dodge and parry chance (for the skills you have).
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________

If you add AC it shows up as mitigation under both AC and Defense just like when you increase str or dex.....why would it show up in both if you were adding the two together.

Lynxal · 03-13-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by velzevul

I am not sure how level influences these numbers,................

My assumption has been....and I have NOT played with this enough...that the Defense tooltip was adjusting your AC mitigation for your level vs your gears level.

In Beta if I remember correctly, your listed AC on an item would change if the equip expertise was greater than 10% but then it would reach max stats when you had achieved 10% or better. I had noitced that since live gear has NOT been adjusting stats visibly but it would make sense that it's being adjusted by the game via your Defensive stat.