Agro issue with CC.

[shadessls]

You pull three mobs that are really strong to your group, two of them are cc'd, the tank gets agro on the 3rd and the group focus fires it down, you break the disable on one, it goes after the cleric, but after a little effort tank gets agro and it is focus fired down, you break disable on the last one it, it goes right after the cleric, it resists the tanks rescue, tank can't get agro, cleric dies.

It doesn't make sense that mobs who are slept/mesmerized constantly build up hate toward the cleric (because the cleric is healing and the mob is "in combat" with the group). It's more of an annoyance than anything, but sometimes when you get unlucky and you're rescue is resisted it can be really deadly.

Suggestion: Make mobs that are mezzed/slept not build up healing hate. The only hate that should be generated is a little bit toward whomever mezzed/slept then.

[velzevul]

Hey dude, welcome to the boards ( its 1st time I see you posting)

On a tougher note, I would resist this suggestion, partially because it simplifies the game, partially because it erases this line between good and bad tanks.

There is a difference between tank who thinks about taunting a mezd mob and tanks who dont. Between tank who wakes up a mob when his rescues r ready and tanks that dont. Between tank that anticipates developing events and tanks that dont.

I usually yell at my group for breaking aggro ahead of me. And I wait for endurance to go up, I stand by the cleric and wake up with torture, after a couple of taunts, I have cleric on defensive target when I wake up a mob, and I make sure all my rescues are up and available. I am ready for a mob going for a cleric. And I do everything I can to make sure mob doesn't hurt my cleric or psi.

Point is... simplification destroys the game. Game that is trivial is no fun, it offers no challenge. And I think most of people on these boards agree with me, that there is a wild difference between taking tediousness out of the game, and taking steps to introduce triviality into the game. And while people here like to get rid of tediousness, they are also wildly opposed to making the game trivial. I think what you are proposing is a step towards making tanking more trivial. Rescues are there for a reason. On the other hand, having rescues resisted, is a PITA that is tediousness.

After all, we all left wow,eq,eq2,uo,u name it what games, to come and play VGSoH, because it promised a challenging fun style, and not a "read-a-walkthrough-follow-X-steps-WIN-F@T-L33TZ" type of playstyle.

[Lynxal]

I don't know about simplification but it certainly doesn't appear that anything other than healing aggro is being transferred properly to the CCd mob and that just doesn't make sense.

[Inruku]

torture mob A and switch to mob B, taunt and hit mob B once or twice then switch back to A. have your group reassist you (or do as I do and tell them not to assist for a few seconds)

you're gtg

[imported_Judas]

Velzevul what you said was perfect.

I do enjoy that challenge. I do enjoy the fact we have to develop strategy to hold agro in mutiple encounter situations. I also enjoy the fact that every one of us may have a different way of doing it. It makes the game enjoyable for me and keeps me on my toes, if the game was trivial I would probably lose intrest playing a tank. I think playing a tank offers the most challenge in an MMO and I enjoy looking at the differences in how people play there tank. Bottom line is we all need to hold agro but I dont want to do that automaticly I want to work at it thats what makes it fun. \

The beauty part of this game is other classes also have to work in keeping agro on a tank. Its like the old days of EQ. As a tank you know when people are NOT doing there job. People are going to crit and thats why we have rescues and I hate to use rescues on people who play the game foolishly. I would rather let them die and save my rescue for people who work towards the groups success.

[Zuul]

Originally Posted by Judas

Velzevul what you said was perfect.

I do enjoy that challenge. I do enjoy the fact we have to develop strategy to hold agro in mutiple encounter situations. I also enjoy the fact that every one of us may have a different way of doing it. It makes the game enjoyable for me and keeps me on my toes, if the game was trivial I would probably lose intrest playing a tank. I think playing a tank offers the most challenge in an MMO and I enjoy looking at the differences in how people play there tank. Bottom line is we all need to hold agro but I dont want to do that automaticly I want to work at it thats what makes it fun. \

The beauty part of this game is other classes also have to work in keeping agro on a tank. Its like the old days of EQ. As a tank you know when people are NOT doing there job. People are going to crit and thats why we have rescues and I hate to use rescues on people who play the game foolishly. I would rather let them die and save my rescue for people who work towards the groups success.

I'm with Judas and V. I'm 27 now and I don't know if it's my group members know what they're doing or I do, or a bit of both (most likely the latter) but I rarely even need my real rescues (Seething Hatred I use a lot, but it's a fake rescue). And when we have CC in the group I always wake with Torture, and follow it up with Provoke, then vex/malice, never had a problem getting the attention of the mob back on me at that point.

[Shawnsan]

There is a specific skill for this circumstance called Seething Hatred. It GUARUNTEES you that the mob will attack YOU for 4 attacks.

The only way it won't attack you the full 4 attacks is if someone else does something like rescues it off you.. mr ubah cleric might have hit that button by accident..

If you can't torture and so on to Keep the agro after that the cleric was overhealing someone..

[shadessls]

I'm actually a paladin ^^, posted here because it was the most trafficked of the fighter forums (of course the paladin section is almost tied with inquisitor and I don't have to tell you what THAT means :wink: ), and I figured it was a tanking issue in general. The circumstance I provided was made up, but similar things have happened. I looked up Seething Hatred when I heard you guys all talking about it and it fits this situation perfectly (I wish paladins had that skill!), so I guess its less of an issue for you guys, but that skill must get resisted now and then especialy against harder mobs.

So then maybe the issue is truly more paladin based than I had imagined (the only skills we have for that situation are our rescues).

But in anycase, I meant to put fourth more than anything (lynxal got me perfect :wink: ) is that, does it make sense for a cc'd mob to get continually stacking heal hate? I truly wonder if it is working as intended or not. (I mean if your asleep you shouldn't be hating on anyone).

[Razlath]

Originally Posted by shadessls

I truly wonder if it is working as intended or not. (I mean if your asleep you shouldn't be hating on anyone).

Were they Dark Elves? They hate everyone...awake or asleep. ;}

Seriously, the main thing that concerns me is the comment about rescues being resisted. Is that really true? If so, that really sucks and is something I think should be considered for a change.

Challenge is what we are all after (or we wouldn't be here), but saving the rescue for just the right time, and using it only when needed is supposed to be the challenge. The challenge shouldn't be...I pushed the button at just the right time, I sure hope the mob doesn't resist and continue to pound the healer into dust.

I haven't noticed my resuces being resisted, but at the same time I haven't used them a lot. As I start grouping more beyond my normal duo, I expect to, so this information is interesting. ;}

[Ishma]

Yep, rescues are resisted all the time. More than I feel comfortable with, but less than it being completely broke. Always seems to happen when you need them most though! Gotta be Murphy's Law or something.