Racials Questions - different DK options I am considering...

[XeroKill]

Originally Posted by Eclipse

I think that would be too powerful, and in a raid not all that useful if most players in your group aren't hitting the mob. (Which in a tank group, they might not be)

I think it's fine as is, and synergistically, the damage buff works perfectly with the ability...so hopefully it stays the same.

I said right after they implemented them, that they were great...the only thing that needs to change is cooldowns. The Qalian Barb's racial is way more powerful than ours, but if we could use ours 2 or 3 times while they used theirs once - it would be equal in effectiveness. Maybe get theirs to 40 minutes to be on a 2:1 ratio. *shrug* who knows...I think they just really wanted to make some races better than others at certain jobs. I'm just happy Qalian barbs can't be DK to overshadow the race I wanted. Selfish, yes...but it's how their powerful ability maes me feel.

-Eclipse

It is funny you say that because that is how the Vulmane racial works. We hit the ability and it applies a buff that returns the damage the entire group is doing back to us, only at a %. I am not certain what the % is ATM. So basically you guys get 100% of your damage returned and Vulmane get X% of group damage returned.

EDIT: Oh and ours is time based, your is # of hits based if I am not mistaken. So you get 5 hits at 100% returned and we get 20 seconds at X% returned from group.

[Eclipse]

*goes to read Vulmane racial*

All depends what the % is to say if it's overpowered or not.

If it was 100% I think we would all agree it was, and that's what I was getting at.

...

*is done reading*

Vulmane: Spiritual Bond
- This ability will apply an effect to every member in your group, allowing 35% of all damage done by them to return to you in the form of health for 20 seconds.
- Again, a nice ability, assuming that it doesnt lower the damage taken for all the group, otherwise this will be in the tank group in every raid

The cyan color is someone else's opinion on it from the OVF. I copied it as well to point out a common mistake I saw already having only gone to read it for 2 minutes.

This is a good racial for a tank to have...not a groupmate of a tank. People are reading it as: Every member of the group recieves health, or that it is 35% of damage taken.

So yes, the vulmane racial is awesome. And if you have a Vulmane tank, you put your highest damage dealers in with him...It's a fantastic ability...and if it's less than 60 minute cooldown, I believe 35% is an ok amount, but 20 seconds is too long. If you broadcasted: "SPIRIT BOND UP"...your group could easily keep you at full health for the entire 20 seconds. Making this a 20-second invuln. *shrug* I would say bring it down to the same effect duration as the Paladin/DK invuln...and then it's ok.

Otherwise, a Vulmane Warrior gets a better invuln as his racial.

Am I wrong?

-Eclipse

[XeroKill]

Well for a normal group, yea it can be pretty awesome, but if you are tanking for a raid then the chances of getting a DPS heavy group is pretty slim. Odds are the group will be:

Tank 1
Healer
Healer
Buffer
Tank 2
Buffer / Healer

Of course this all depends on raid mechanics and such. As for the cooldown, it is 20 minutes. It is plenty short enough to be used on every boss, and for the "Oh shit!" moments in a group. If you more than 1 or 2 of those moments in less than 20 minutes, you need another group or a different dungeon. If cross group buffing / healing is really easy to do in a raid, then I can see stacking up some DPS classes in the tank group to make better use of this ability.

[velzevul]

making raids "work" is going to be a real tricky and strategic business, you will need to know your guild like the back of your own hand, to generate certain really beneficial race/class combinations, and tailor them to situations. In short - 4 groups worth of headache.

and the funniest part is, that the EQ1 attitude towards raid creation, a.k.a. - "fuck it, we'll do" - will mean a big difference between a win and a loss, just due to the effect these racials can have on total healer mana, total tank hps, total DPS of the raid, etc.

[XeroKill]

I still cannot believe they opted for such a small raid force. It is going to make class selection very very slim when it comes raid time. A good majority of those slots will have to go to healers and getting all the required buffs / debuffs, then getting in enough tanks for tank switches, off tanking, as well as having enough DPS to stay ahead of spawns and taking down the bosses in a timely fashion. I think 40 would have been a better size... but then again I was so in tune with the 72 man raids of the PoP era, and I loved the huge raid sizes.

[velzevul]

huge raid sizes become a serious problem in a guild where even 20% of people are not dedicated enough to give the game their undivided attention for the night. a cleric in a heal chain watching TV becomes a serious problem. And reason I read about VGSOH and fell in love with it (even if only on paper for starters) was that it is VERY obviously by game design who is watching TV, who is playing, and who is PLAYING.

[Eclipse]

I know I'll get flak for this...but I thought hard-capped 40 was the best number.

What is it in VG? 24? Hmm, it's not terrible...but for raiding guilds, that means almost always 2 raids. (Which again, is not terrible...just hard.)

-Eclipse

[velzevul]

I think it will just come down to smaller crowds of people being guilded.

[XeroKill]

The only thing I don't like about having smaller raids is that the smaller they are the more valuable the raid slots become. We all know that as time goes on there will be a bit of natural selection among all the classes, and eventually there will be a pseudo-priority assigned to specific classes and to a lesser degree races with these new racials. All in all, it can result in some classes being last resort options like the way Rangers and Shadow Knights became in EQ2. Who knows, maybe they will do a great job at making every class very desirable for raids, but even with that comes a limit because so many slots have to go to healers, and so many to tanks, so many to debuffers, so many for buffers, and so many for DPS.

One of the big things I DO like about small raids is the feeling of accomplishment and the fact that every one has to be on their best performance. In EQ1 with 72 people, a good 20 or so of those could be slacking off totally and still not be a terrible burden on a raid. I like that it forces people to be more responsible for their part of the job.

It has its ups and downs, but I would be happier with a raid size of 35 - 45 as the max. That way you can have the best of both worlds. You can afford to give away raid slots to "less desirable" classes once all the primaries are filled. You can have a few people capable of slacking off. Nothing sucks more than halting an entire raid because one person gets a phone call, and that person is a little too vital to the raid.

Of course this is all 100% dependent on how hard the raids are in the first place. If they are cake, then it won't really matter. If they are stupid hard then it should be interesting.

[Eclipse]

I think there will probably be larger raids later.
For now though, if we had never played EQ or WoW or anything...we wouldn't think 24 was bad. As long as I can get 1 of every class in my raid...then the rest will be slotted with strength. Mark my words, everyone will be useful. You're going to want every buff and every debuff in the game, and if the players are not the most skilled...you make them skilled. I have nothing against extra work as a raid leader...and if it takes an extra hour, I'm ok with that.

Raidng with friends > great random players ...anyday.

-Eclipse