Q&A w/ The Dread Knight Class Lead

[TeamSKKeris]

Yes, I moved the idea here since Xacies doesn't seem to like the personal attack threads!

[Xaices]

Originally Posted by TeamSKKeris

Hey Xacies,

I had some concerns. Maybe you could address them. I don't want them to seem like a class-to-class battle though. Please do not take them as such.

I think Devs need to look at for DKs:

1) Before level 40 our defensive stance is not equal to other tanks. I personally would suggest letting us have the 15% in our defensive, and maybe as DC rises either increase our aggro modifier by X% per DC level or make it a group buff of adding X% per level of DC to everyone's mitigation (which doesn't come up unless you are in a group).

2) DKs at lower levels (definitely between 10-20) need to be looked at in the realm of hate generation. Our main taunt (Provoke) is on too slow a timer and produces too little hate to be effective with the damage output of other classes.

3) Damage output of 2H weapons is too low now. They broke them basically.

4) Too many of our skills are based off of DC which until level 40, they are impossible to maximize. Having to wait for level 40 to get the most out of your class should not be acceptable. From what I have seen, no other class is restricted like we are.

I realize we are on the backburner for now, but since I think you talk to the Devs do you have any information on if they know about these issues. Are they open to suggestions? I would post some of this on the VGB board if so.

0. DC is the Dread Knights theme its not going to go away on how most of your abilties are tied into it. It is that way by design, wich is some what of a benifit to us because since we are subpar at DC 0 we get bonuses for working harder to achieve a higher DC level. I will get back into this later.

1. Yes, I have been talking to Avair about this. Conversation was to push some of our defensive abilties down, such as the Shield of Fear and Dark Bastion chain. I think as far down as your mid teens. Our base to 10% mit is not going to change as we gain much more from DC than just the 5% more mit at DC 5.

2. Yes this has continualy been addressed time and time again on the OVF and PMs and Hate Mail to me. Again It is being addressed infact I was just having a conversation with Avair about it tonight. Discussion points of interest is that Incite Inflame chain be pushed down to your teens and hate accross the board be slightly increased on all abilities.

3. Actualy from what I can tell on my 2h's is that dmg has been significantly increased plus you still get the double dmg from crit.

4. I will re-engage Avair on this but it has not been changed back and I think they are pretty firm on keeping DC the way it is. Will see this Saturday when the Dread gets looked at again.

Post all you want on the OVF. We are getting looked at this Saturday.

Now lets put something in perspective for us all in relation to our mitigation hate and dmg.

Have you looked at Dark Bastion. Look at the ability. Notice Dark Bastion III. gives you 150 AC per DC level . 0, 1, 2, 3. 4, 5. Calculation 900AC. Yes you DC starts at level 0 not level 1 contrary to belief. I also asked was 900AC intended , yes it was because we have to work to achieve it, so we get an added bonus.

Take a look at our Incarnates, good things come to those who can wait. Hatred Incanate, Incarnate of Hate.

We are always going to be a subpar tank unless we raise our DC, and if we Raise it we are par if not better.

Yes I know we can not raise past 1 or 2 or 3 dependant on your level. Thus I am in conversation with Avair to eleviate the problems with agro dmg and mit to give us more of a balance at lower levels. Still the fact will remain if you do not raise your DC or just our right neglect it you will always be a substandard tank. We are a difficult class to play, many will fail, many will quit, but the ones who stick with it will be rewarded ten fold in the end.

[Xaices]

Originally Posted by XeroKill

It is funny... I have a post in which I have addressed this very issue, and yet all our Dread Knight brethren seem to be against getting this changed. I cannot for the life of me understand why they think we should be at a disadvantage to the others when we are all supposed to tank equally. Either way here is a link to the post where it is being discussed. Maybe you can weigh in and straighten them out. :P

Using your quote but not entirely directed at you. Becarefull what you ask for. You should realy look at all your abilities. If we increase MIT on Defensive stance then there has to be loss else where, and why most Dreads do not dispute this is that we can obtain the same base mit, and achieve greater mit with other abilities. Dark Bastion, Dark Ward, Aphotic Shield, Symbol of Dispar, Shield of Fear to name the ones off the top of my head. Most of those are tied into DC again Dark Bastion III gives you 900 AC at DC 5. Something most Dreads do not want to loose at end game. So most of us are going to suck it up during the noob levels. Yes yes argue that if you wish cant get a grp to level subpar tank pre 20 etc etc, Again working to to get some of these abilities pushed down.

Your realy need to look at the class as a whole.

[Eclipse]

Yes, I think that's what most of us are thinking Xaices, and why the other thread didn't get an overwhelming push to change defensive stance.

I am ok with the fact that I get better in late leves than in low levels. To me that makes sense. I can't complain though, because I will never be hurting for groups.

I do wish however, that they allowed us our full DC at a lower lvl - like 20. I fully understand and agree with needing DC to be good...but when we cannot even get DC - the point is lost in translation.

Even at lvl 20, there are long fights with 4-dots and such, so we should at least be given DC4. (I haven't actually seen where it actually says WHEN we learn DC4...if it's around 20, I'm just gonna go over into that corner and read the: "check info before you post" sign)

Thanks Xaices, it's such an awesome thing that you come here to discuss things with us. That to me is the sign of a great class lead...and I truly hope they keep you on post-launch.

-Eclipse

[XeroKill]

I have no issue with debating the facts of the issues. The items you point out are the things I wish had been brought up from the very beginning of the discussion. I do not consider optimistic hopes and dreams to be valid points. The posts that I am getting in a twist over are the ones that come off as "The devs would never intentionally let us blah blah blah." If some one wants to come out and tell me I am wrong, and provide me with legitimate and substantial evidence to convince me otherwise, that is just dandy. Thus far it has been pretty much nothing but raw speculation and "We will just have to wait and see" bull sh*t responses. I quit being optimistic about MMO creators and class design along time ago.

I am curious about this Dark Bastion, is it as simple as casting it at DC0 and watching it grow as your DC rises, or do you re-cast it with each step up? What are the re-use timers on it, how much energy does it cost? You know, the usual stuff.

I have indeed looked over all our abilities as much as I could, I mean I did take the time to write them all out. The issues is that the vendor versions of these abilities doesn't quite encompass their true potential. So while Dark Bastion may sound nice when reading it from the vendor, not knowing its re-use timers, cast time, energy costs, and other elements that are left out, I can only draw so many conclusions.

[TeamSKKeris]

Thanks again, Xacies. Glad we have a good class lead!

[Eclipse]

Xaices!
At lvl 40, can you tank with a 2H weapon? If you have tried - is it harder for healers to keep you up? Is the increased damage noticeable as far as hate is concerned?
Is it viable?

I'm not asking for "is it fun?" I'm asking for: Have they put in a system where it can actually work as a tank to use a 2h weapon in a raid?

If you'd rather PM me, that's cool. I just saw some Warriors complaining that DK had better DPS while tanking because we can use 2H weapons. I have no idea why they couldn't or if it's actually a viable tanking strategy...but Raive didn't discount it. So I'm curious...I've never thought a tank could do his job appropriately with a 2Her.

Thanks man,

~Cevantez Kaervek, Orc Dreadknight and Scion of The Seraphim

[Xaices]

Well with out the block bonus of the shield, with out the additional AC, with out the added stats..?

I am sure it can be done..would it be the prefered method?

IMO that added dmg from the 2h aint going to make the fight go that much faster where the healers will heal less in end. Can you tank a 6 dot w/ a 2h I am sure you can and it has been done. Would it have been a little easier on the ol' Healers if you had put the shield on probably.

2h has not got its passive block for us yet. Do not know if it ever will, but currently 2h is Offensive not Defensive.

Guess I am just old fashioned. The More AC CON HP BLOCK the better I am at taking less dmg and sucking up the dmg I do take.

[XeroKill]

It would be nice if they added in an AA type system later on that granted us an ability to block with a 2 hander. I am of the same opinion, there is no doubt that having a shield will always be better on the healers if the content is at least normal difficulty. Although I am sure it is possible to tank with a 2 hander, for me it is just not an option. I figure why take the chance for a marginal increase in DPS.

[Eclipse]

Yeah it was that "2H weapon block bonus" that I was hoping was IN. Without the bonus to block for 2H, I would not have asked this question - ever.

The DPS alone is never enough to put the shield away...unless we can use the 2H weapon as a defensive tool. If we can't...then 1H/shield I go!

Thanks a lot.

-Eclipse