Are we Underpowered

[Thano Ithera]

I am playing a kurashasa DreadKnight in both late beta and now in launch both times on PvP ruleset servers. And iv noticed In PvP we are rather underpowered
especialy against healing Classes, offencive casters arnt to much of a problem provided they are equal lvl or lower. so my question is are we underpowered or are the healing classes (specificaly Deciples & Clerics) overpowered

[Rithrin]

Its mainly that the healing classes are ridiculously overpowered. In fact, like 15 minutes ago before I logged out, I experienced this. I was in a full group and we somehow ended up engaging another group in combat - we slaughtered them. However, their one healer persisted through the massacre. Four of us focused fire on her yet she managed to escape out of the dungeon even with multiple spiders attacking her as well. I managed to Abyssal Chains her at least seven separate times, each time it was met with some sort of dispelling ability. So... a healer, lower level than us, was able to escape a combined assault from almost our entire group with a combination of healing, dispelling, and climbing her way out of a spiraling dungeon.

If that isn't proof enough that healers in general require some evaluation for PvP, then I have no idea what would provoke that.

[FEDS-91]

I'm not a healer, but I don't much like hearing calls for nerf to other classes. Especially when its regarding PvP. The thing I dislike about that is it ends up affecting the PvE people as well. And to be honest the rules are or should be different. Often times I've seen things that have gotten nerfed due to people wanting things changed for one play style, end up ruining it for another. Now, I'm not denying that there aren't cases where classes are overpowered, but what tends to happen, is the cries for nerfing by the playerbase get louder, the dev teams end up overreacting and go completely overboard instead of doing one adjustment, seeing how it works, then doing another one. Its almost always way too much that its ridiculous. Couple that with the fact, the class that talks the loudest about nerfing another class, just ends up creating a lot of animosity between the two professions. I've seen it in ever MMO I've played.

[Thano Ithera]

I know wat your saying FEDS but as you can see im not realy calling for a Nerf what id Like to see is a Buff to The DK class hence why I worded it as I have tho I must say that The healing Classes paticularly the Deciple and Cleric are abit overpowered in PvP for verious reasons.. now I havnt faced off against either class since the last update wich has brought atleast the Deciple down a peg or two but it took 1 lvl 15 Ranger, 1 lvl 14 dreadknight and 3 lvl 11s of verious classes to take down 1 lvl 15 deciple pre patch and it took the better part of 15 minutes to do that.. I think that tells you alittle something about the balence there

[Rithrin]

Indeed, I'm not actually calling for a nerf for the healing classes. What I meant was that I would love to see every class brought up to their power. But what you said here...

it ends up affecting the PvE people as well. And to be honest the rules are or should be different.

Currently spell damage is significantly lowered vs. players. My DoT at lvl 15 does 56 damage per tick against an NPC, but against a player (Same level, tested this with my friends) it does a measly 18 damage per tick. That's a 65% decrease in spell power against players! My fifteen minute cooldown direct damage spell does a pittance of 500 when it crits against players. That's slightly higher than the minimum damage it lists on the tooltip.

None of this would be a particular problem except that there is no code to distinguish PvE healing from PvP healing. So anyone with heals (Paladins included) gain strength simply due to their healing spells having 100% efficiency when everyone else's damage is at 30% efficiency. Just remove this silly and unneccessary PvP damage reduction and we're set.

[Riceman]

All we really need are longer-duration and AoE Fear abilities. I'm content to scare the everloving daylights out of NPCs at the moment. I haven't tried PvP yet, but I imagine the same would work there too.

[Zance]

An AoE fear would be nice, and, it would be quite fitting w/the whole idea of a DK. He just goes "AHH!" and throws up his arms and every1 in a radius leaves a cow pie and splits!

[suavebum]

I have a 10 Ranger and 10 Warrior. My friend has a 10 cleric. It is impossible to take him down. It's not just the Dreadknight. Every melee class can't take out clerics. And I agree that we shouldn't nerf classes.

So we can't take out healers in PvP. The only way that would change is if we nerfed them. Which we probably shouldn't do.

Though saying we should buff dreadknights is crazy. If you think we should buff dreadknights, than we have to buff all classes. Maybe giving more spell-interrupt skills or such.

In the end though, we can rip through mobs faster than healers. So I take solace in that.


So I would say buff all melee's if you're going to, or give everyone some VERY small heals or HoT's.

But just buffing dreadknights is simply a preference for the class you play so you can be buffed above other classes, in my opinion.

[Ysharros]

Originally Posted by suavebum

In the end though, we can rip through mobs faster than healers. So I take solace in that.

Hah! Mountains rise in less time than it takes a cleric to kill a mob! That said, I've ended up playing a cleric and she is an absolute blast, especially non-solo (and this from a primarily solo DPS-type usually). I thought paladins had "stickability" in beta but man, clerics are just plain unkillable - at the very least, we can stay alive while we run away.

I can see how this could be a real issue in PvP, but I sure hope it doesn't change the PvE setup. Clerics do exactly what it says on the tin: provide some really nice buffs and keep everyone standing; they're not as flashy as the shaman or as interesting as the blood mage seems to be, and certainly not as good in combat as the disciple -- but they're very good at plain old fashioned healing. This is one of the things I love about Vanguard though - no matter what "healing" class you pick, you'll have a solid healer in the group plus whatever flavour each individual class brings with them, even if it's taking the community some time to realise that Clerics are *not* the only ones who can heal. This is A Good Thing (TM).

A little more on-topic, I've played a DK up into the low teens, which isn't much to judge by, but I felt powerful enough (this was back in B3 though). Recently hubby and I rolled up a paladin (him) and a DK (me), and we absolutely rip through stuff - a very entertaining combination, to be sure. (Not to mention lots of good RP possibilities, heh.)

[Uln'Xeresy]

Personaly I will always stand for a more buffed DK, as a DK you should be able to stand strong in gourps and Alone. The Hardest bother i have with VG is it's Socialist View of trying to Controle Players and heard them in to groups. Grouping is fine, but nothing fills out your toon than Solo play.