Real Magick?

[Pirotess]

Aye if we can be adults about it real world Religion/Politics (the real hotbeds of debate) are fine in the off topic forums. I never want to see them in the gaming portions of the site as they have no place there unless of course you're discussing the diplomacy sphere and/or Vanguard adds religion to the mix.

As a former catholic, I'd bite on a few of the comments above but Im happy believing what I believe and letting other folks do the same.

[Greymain]

Being an Atheist I do try to take care not to step on anyones toes. But if a subject such as this which addresses real life beliefs is bought up. Then I felt justified in pointing out what, to my mind, is the only documented incidents of real magic. Perhaps I was wrong in picking out a particular Religion as miracles form a part in many faiths.

[Pirotess]

I see nothing wrong in your posts Greymain, you're doing fine. Besides we're kindred sprits as far as our beliefs.

[Doddy Curumehtar]

We have evolved to see patterns and causes where there is none. Evolutionarily speaking, it is better to always see tigers in the long grass when there are none, than it is to always require irrefutable proof of the tiger's existance before running away.

Thus, when something unusual happens, we link things together and find reasons and causes - see patterns where there are none. Even as children, we attribute semi-magical properties to things. That is the way we see things, not the way the universe really is.

[Gares91]

When i made this thread i had no intention of bringing religion into it, every religion has followers who believe to their own content, which could allow a person of any religion to believe in or not believe in magick. Personally i have no problem with anybodies religion as long as they have none with mine. But its understandable to see someone bring up religion in this thread since it can play a very strong role in a persons beliefs.

[Strongjaw]

I think the biggest problem we have is we are all using different definitions of magic .... and as such we will never agree .. Do i believe in more than i can see hear feel ...ya, what is it ... damned if i know. So i believe there are tings that man may not have the capacity to truly comprehend ,,,, except for a few whacked out genious's or mystics .. I guess that makes me an agnostic ... with skeptical tendicies. So my answer would be kinda .. and lets leave it at that

[magicalfirebird]

Personally, i believe in many things, and try not to dismiss anything as untrue or non existent. So I voted Yes, but I am going to dissect and explain my side to a few of these, without going too far into religion albeit i might touch on my beliefs (something i dont regularly discuss because not everyone shares my view).

Do I believe in Ghosts, paranormal activities, etc? Yes, completely, but this is an entirely different thing (without dipping into something along the lines of Necromancy) from Magick. Growing up I have seen several, the main one several times in the house where i grew up. She watched over me and my brother, but tried to knock my dad down the stairs and hit him in his sleep. This would be when my mom was out cold in bed (heavy sleeper is an understatement) or not even home. Still, this isn't exactly Magick.

Auras, energies of living things, souls, etc.? Yes, not exactly Magick, although the manipulation of those would be considered so. Some people say they can see (with their own 2 eyes) Auras around people. I can't. Others say they can "see" them with their Mind's Eye. In an Eastern Religion or 2, it is believed that our Mind or Soul can see/perceive things that our bodies cannot. This would be tied into our Sub-Conscious and would be more like "felt" than seen. I am of this category (this is where people generally start calling me nuts and/or looking at me funny). Some people can do this and some cannot. It might have something to do with a person's brain patterns etc. (IQ levels and such). I have taken 4 IQ tests throughout my life so far and they have all been in the 120-130 range (lowest being 121, highest being 127).I don't mean to make that sound like bragging, just my reasoning for why I think it has to do with Brain Power or Usage (someone feel free to disprove that, I'm always one for learning). I also believe that Auras are what the Wiccans and Druids (Yes, i've studied those religions a bit, being 80+% Irish, I am curious about the Druids of old and new) see as being Energies (mainly believed only to be found in living things by them).

Do I think that these Energies or Auras can be used to manipulate things such as close a door or make someone do something? No. Do I believe in the type of Fireball hurling, lightning calling, creature/person summoning type of Magick? No. I believe that those Energies/Auras can only affect other Energies/Auras, and they are tied to our Souls, or a part of them if you will. Sort of like the limbs of our Soul. As our body has limbs that are physical that can affect the physical world, i believe that our Souls (being incoporeal) have limbs that can affect only the same, other incoporeal things. In this way I believe this is how we interact, see, feel, react, to things such as ghosts or that feeling of being watched. Being more of a Sub-Conscious thing most people, not having focused or thought on it, dont realize they are "reaching out" with the said aspect.

The only way I would consider any of that Magick would be if you managed to cross from Aura Manipulation over to Real World Manipulation using your Energy/Aura.

Sorry for the long winded post, but it is something that I do believe in. Everyone is welcome to their beliefs, because in the end, how do we really know we are right? We don't until this journey is over and it's time to take the next. I don't believe any of this has to do with religion really. After all, I was raised Baptist/Lutheran (my parents decided to alternate their churches and let us kids decide how we wanted to go with it). Although religions do shape alot of what people believe or don't believe in.

P.S. This isnt something I have discussed with too many people. Meaning before this post, less than 10 people have ever heard any of this from me. Please don't bash as for those of us who believe, we take alot of flak for it already and generally don't share this kind of thing with people.

[Gares91]

Nicely put magicalfirebird. I'd say that i agree with you for the most part, maybe a few things i might feel differently about. It's a shame people can't talk about this kinda stuff in the real world due to people who end up stereotyping you for such thoughts.

[Kramboid]

I used to believe in magic after watching Criss Angel (Mindfreak), but then I watched some of his stunts on YouTube and saw little flaws and camera cuts I didn't see before. I guess we all want to believe in fantasy but if we really look into it, our logic will override.

[huckleberry]

But wait!!! Do some of u belive in jesus or (god) U may not have meet him either so what makes him real?? just a plain ? books ? lots of them about magik also!! so why would that be any diff Hmmm!!!!