SOE and Vanguard: Whats YOUR take? - Page 2

Nil · 05-11-2006, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheKnight

So what do you all think about the new partnership between SOE and Sigil?

I've done everything I can to avoid looking at and following this game (I really don't have time to play an MMO, even though it's my favorite genre), and I accidentally stumbled on this news. I had to come look because I was just SURE it was some kind of joke.

Sigil may still have full control, but there's no guarantee that they won't jump ship just like they did in EQ. And then what are we left with...

Say what you want about Microsoft, but, they are at least capable businessmen. You cannot say the same about SOE.

edit: I've calmed down a bit. I still cannot believe it - but I guess there's something to be said about them going ahead and doing this even though they HAD to know what kind of outcry there would be. Why should I care, I likely won't be able to play anyhow.

Adwaup · 05-15-2006, 11:52 PM

Personally I don't have any more trust for Microsoft than I do for SOE , with that being said I am still at status quo , wait and see . While I don't like what SOE has done to their other games (played EQ2 for 1 year and didn't like what they did to SWG) I can't say my experience is a true picture of the company as a whole and not knowing the exact deal that was made between Sigil and SOE there's no way I could have a valid opinion anyway . I know some people have sworn off SOE entirely and that's unfortunate since who knows , maybe they learned from their mistakes (it could happen) and will do this one right . But as with all games of this type , if it's fun I will pay to play , when the fun stops I move on . Speaking of moving on , I got a letter from SOE in the mail just today giving me free 7days to play EQ2 , LOL as if !

I am betting microsoft wanted this game ported to the xbox and that would mean dumbing down the interface and Sigil said no , hence the different directions . Well some day they will let it leak exactly why , until then it's all guesswork.

Aredhel · 05-16-2006, 03:58 AM

Ok, gang...listen up!

Brad has gone to great lengths for the past 2 weeks to explain, but people still refuse to listen/read/believe...whatever!

If you haven't read this by now, maybe you ought to!

I don't trust SoE, either, but I trust Brad. If he didn't care, he wouldn't be staying up nights trying to get people to understand without possibly breaking terms of contract that would disclose exactly what is written.

Read...THEN talk, ok?

Greymain · 05-16-2006, 05:13 AM

Interesting snippit ..

"Also at E3, Funcom, the makers of the new MMORPG, Age of Conan, announced that they had signed a development and marketing agreement with software giant Microsoft. As a result, Funcom will be looking to optimize the game for Windows Visa."

So speculation that converting Vanguard to Xbox was an issue or that Microsoft is not interested in MMORPG at this time are unlikely.

Nil · 05-16-2006, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aredhel

Read...THEN talk, ok?

I think most of us did read. But thanks anyway for the helpful tip.

It doesn't change anything, though. Brad told us over and over, that Microsoft didn't have any control over the development of the game, but now that MS is out of the picture, and SOE is in, they suddenly have more control over the development of the game (how can you have more than total, and before someone pipes in to say they have more control regarding the publishing, that's not the only thing they've been saying)? Things do not add up. There's no real reason to believe that Brad has any more integrity than his bestest buddy.

Still, they made the decision knowing that it would cause a great deal of hate - and cost them customers - yet they made it anyway. Regardless of how we feel, we can at least feel confident that Sigil feels they made the right decision. It's their livelihood and reputations on the line. We are only staking a bit of our free time. I still wish they made a different decision.

Pirotess · 05-16-2006, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nil

I think most of us did read. But thanks anyway for the helpful tip.

It doesn't change anything, though. Brad told us over and over, that Microsoft didn't have any control over the development of the game, but now that MS is out of the picture, and SOE is in, they suddenly have more control over the development of the game (how can you have more than total, and before someone pipes in to say they have more control regarding the publishing, that's not the only thing they've been saying)? Things do not add up. There's no real reason to believe that Brad has any more integrity than his bestest buddy.

Still, they made the decision knowing that it would cause a great deal of hate - and cost them customers - yet they made it anyway. Regardless of how we feel, we can at least feel confident that Sigil feels they made the right decision. It's their livelihood and reputations on the line. We are only staking a bit of our free time. I still wish they made a different decision.

I think Aredhel was just making a general statement. There were surely alot of folks (mostly in that 70+ page OVF thread) that didnt read or at least comprehend the press release. Nothing personally directed at anyone here Im sure.

As for the rest I cant say I recall Brad stating in no uncertain terms like he has about the SOE deal that Microsoft didnt have some level of input on the development of the game. Their initial press release actually seemed to imply that Microsoft would be helping with development. Emphasis is mine.

Quote:

REDMOND, Wash. - May 16, 2002 -- Microsoft Game Studios today announced that it is in the final stages of an exclusive publishing deal with Sigil Games Online Inc. Sigil Games Online was formed by two of the game industry's most renowned designers, Brad McQuaid, co-creator of the revolutionary, massively multiplayer online role-playing game EverQuest, and Jeff Butler, former producer of the EverQuest Live and Expansion teams.

"This relationship will further strengthen Microsoft's position in the industry as a premier publisher and incubator of high-quality games and innovative content," said Stuart Moulder, general manager at Microsoft Game Studios. "Brad and Jeff's skill in creating compelling and immersive gaming worlds, combined with our commitment to supporting our development partners, will create a rich opportunity to develop exciting new game environments and experiences."

"This is a match made in heaven," said McQuaid, CEO of Sigil Games Online. "We couldn't have found a better publisher. Microsoft understands our ideas and goals, is committed to creating a superior gaming experience, and has the industry expertise to make it happen.

I think its reasonable to assume that the relationship formed with Microsoft three years ago to the day, wasnt as clearly defined as the new one with SOE. Sigil was smaller back then and probably didnt have as much experience with drawing up what sounds like a pretty complex contract. If nothing else it seems to me that they've learned along the way and didnt make the same mistake twice. Personally that trait right there goes a long way with me.

In the time I've been following Vanguard, I've never seen Brad or any other employee outright lie to the fans. Sure things change over time, as all things do, and people referring back to statements taken out of time context may feel the company is being disingenuous but I dont think thats a fair conclusion to come to for obvious reasons.

But lets ignore all that and just discuss your point about how they could have more development control then they did when the assumption for whatever reason is that they already had total control. I think its more likely that it comes down to a difference in Sigils definition of development and yours than Sigil lying. Sigils definition of "development" is likely much less absolute than yours is by necessity. It likely allows for certain aspects you feel are part of the development process to be considered in other processes. For me it seems likely that Microsoft as publisher had a deadline in mind for shipping and was doing its best to encourage Sigil to meet it. That right there is just one example of how they could have had an effect on the development process even while not having a direct hand in the creative and game mechanics portion of the development process. Im sure there are other examples we could draw but I think that gets the point across. Having the say of when the game needs to be ready pretty much forces Sigils hand on certain development decisions. Some features stay, some go, etc, etc.

In any case, I share your distrust of SOE, I really do. In fact I created this site pretty much because I was done with SOE after station exchange and wanted to participate in a new community without their influence. However given the trust I have in Sigil (since it hasnt been broken yet) I see no reason to not adopt a wait and see attitude. Sure I might be disappointed down the road if Brads claims turn out to not be true but I might also be pleasantly surprised when they do hold true. If they do then this was a good deal. SOE is good at marketing and distribution (at least in the US) and Microsoft really seems to have dropped the ball on the marketing front at least so we should see improvement there at the very least. I have to also conceed that they are at least no worse than anyone else at billing/hosting so thats pretty much a wash. Sure we might have some technical support issues but if we do voice your complaints to Sigil and I bet we'll see some adjustments if our concerns are warranted.

Bottomline is Sigil seems to have bought themselves more time and in an age of rushed out software, that can only be a good thing. Right?

Nil · 05-16-2006, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirotess

than Sigil lying.

Lying is really a more harsh word than I meant to communicate. I think a closer representation to my thoughts would be "spin". Everyone does it, though. I'm not sure why I should have expected something different here.

edit: "Here" meaning with Vanguard, not Spheres. I love you guys.

And you know what's really disgusting, all of this mess probably brought me back as a customer. I was doing so well staying away from the game, but this bombshell got me to look at the progress they've made. Grrr.

Pirotess · 05-16-2006, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nil

And you know what's really disgusting, all of this mess probably brought me back as a customer. I was doing so well staying away from the game, but this bombshell got me to look at the progress they've made. Grrr.

Hah there you go its all a PR stunt!

Greymain · 05-16-2006, 07:58 PM

Well I do hope they are better at creating games than creating publicity. Bet this SOE thing has lost more than a few hours sleep for the folks at sigil.

We have not been told the whole truth but I expected that. they have six months either to create a game so good the the SOE haters will not be able to resist or attract a load of new converts.

Melchizedek · 05-17-2006, 02:27 PM

I want to be the new Sigil Games Online Publicist. I am serious. I would resign my commission tomorrow if I knew I could be in charge of this. I am sure there are competent people out there who know how to do this, but they need someone from the grass roots level to make this right. Someone who can think outside of the box.

This game should be huge by release. Everything is in place, and as Nil says, if it is "spun/spin" correctly, it will be a grand slam.