Boe?

[Ysharros]

Originally Posted by Odball-1

Increase resale to NPC vendors to be within reason. If a vendor will pay 1.5 s for a peice of crab shell, why not the same for a nice peice of armor. (Without BoE)

Absolutely! While I don't know what long-term effects it might have, it seems pretty evident that almost nobody will NPC-vendor stuff for a handful of copper when they can get at least a few silver -- or even 50c, which is 10 times what the NPC will give for lower-level "trash" greens -- for it on the broker, especially since stuff can sit there for weeks and never go off sale.

[Ruffie]

The problem with vendors giving decent prices for crafted goods is that it opens up too many holes for people to churn out mass amounts of coin. This allows gold farmers to destroy the economy rapidly.

With a small amount of creativity however, they could come up with a decent exchange that would not impact the economy.

N pieces of crafted armour for one free ride to any city on Telon anyone? T1 has a 3 minute cast time, T2 has a 2 minute cast time, T3 has a 1 minute cast time, T4 has a 30 second cast time, T5 excluded...don't need a sink for those yet. Make the item soul bound with one charge, refresh timer of 2 hours.

N Pieces of crafted armour turned in for an hour long USEFUL buff.

N Pieces of crafted armor to rent a speedy mount, speedy being better than anything you could get for your level. Level being determined by the tier of the turn ins.

Long term, add a city where the only way to gain faction is to turn in crafted gear. Access to the city gains you access to better crafting XP in the city, Premeir adventuring dungeons, Diplomatic centers, Additional quests for all spheres, specific raids when they get raiding in... Faction would degrade in this city, demanding a constant supply of crafted goods. Story line for the city, could be a city under siege.

Basically, BoE is the lazy way out which addresses one issue at the expense of several others.

[Myrdinn]

I flat out hate BOE in any shape or fashion. Hated it when it was introducted in SWG, and it left a sour taste in my mouth when it hit beta here. Heck, I didn't mind getting super busy at work, back in those days, simply because I hated binding on equip!
Flat out, leaving the looted stuff unbound, and my crafted stuff bound, feels like a punishment to me.

As far as the line of most of the other crafters I know complaigning about the market; I would like to point out as a 23 warrior, 21 armorsmith, 200ish diplomat (on my live server), I'm running a half-completed house and hovering around a gold as my bottom line.

The last three people who tried to get me to go to the forums to support this idea (last night as I was finally getting time to work on my diplo skill instead of helping someone grind, or armor them, etc), were all complaigning that they had a bottom line of two plat.



I really don't want to go into my feelings on that; but, suffice it to say, I generally hate the idea of BOE. Heck, when I'm helping a newb grind up, I'm often sending a set of armor to whichever lowbie tank I'm using to help that person get into to the game... making it BOE means I won't be helping lowbies get into their teens and work out the game, anylonger (as it just takes too damn long to keep making the same set of armor for each lowbie toon... especially when I have to delete one toon to make a new helper toon).

[Riss]

Originally Posted by Ruffie

Basically, BoE is the lazy way out which addresses one issue at the expense of several others.

Exactly!

The problem with this game devopmet is that whatever they do - they prefer to do it the easy way. (remember the death revamp they wanted to do awww =) I personaly do not see the logic behind any action I see no plan of game development feels like they dont think ahead when they plan to change something for one minute relief of some whiners on forums or wherever. As it was told BOE is planned to be introbuced because crafters often whined on forums on how it is hard to sell their crafted items. Well guess what the logical thing to do would be to boost crafted items in stats vs loot to make them appealing to customers so ppl can sell them. But for some reason the genious logic beats me here and gives out a solution to make crafted gear EVEN LESS appealing and make it BOE. ROLF. I dont even take this game seriously anymore every god damn fix takes this game further and further from what it could be and from what it was promised. I am sure most ppl play this game up untill something else new comes out, where this game is going there will be nothing left appealing to stick for years so might as well stop caring about it right now rather then be brokenhearted later like most peeps did with SWG.

[Piala]

Originally Posted by Riss

As it was told BOE is planned to be introbuced because crafters often whined on forums on how it is hard to sell their crafted items.

Who said that? Can we get a quote??

[Ysharros]

Yeah, that's not entirely accurate. Crafters "whined" that crafted goods weren't leaving the economy so that a) they would see their own stuff back for sale after someone was done with it, at a much lower price than the crafter could usually make the item for; and b) at some point in time there just won't be a whole lot of need for crafted stuff, since it never goes away.

This issue holds true for other stuff too, but understandably enough crafters are worried about their own crafted items.

It's not a case of crafters being crap and not knowing how to market themselves - I personally have about 5 years of experience running crafting businesses in game, and I'm nowhere near as savvy as some. It's not that we don't know what we're doing. It's that the system will eventually make us even less needed than we are now.

Again, BoE may not be a solution (certainly not on its own) but I believe it's an honest effort on Sigil's part to address something that is an equally valid concern. We don't know if they're done yet, so we'll see.

[Greydog]

I certainly don't fault sigil for attempting to address the issue, but I do feel they are taking the easy way out and doing it in knee jerk fashion. BoE on crafted items willl stop the resale of said items by adventurers ..mostly because adventurers won't be buying crafted items in the first place. Every item a player aquires before level 50 is in effect, a temporary item, as it will be repaced with a higher tier item relatively quickly. So what this fix actually does is "throw the baby out with the bathwater".

What boggles me is that it is Brad & co's irrational fear that folks will lose that "uber item" that is limiting the real choices they have to rectify the issue in the first place.

Let's start by assuming that soulbunding will remove the permenent part from permenent decay. Then lets make everything decay permenantly right from the start. After this we can do things like protect one of a kind items by making them BoP and allowing the player to protect thier cherished items by visiting an npc who will SB thier item for a cost. In the end I believe we would have a much more serviceable system than is being tested atm.

The resale devaluation of soulbinding could be easily offset by allowing the player to tag the item for decon. Making it tradeable but unequipable.

IMHO I have not seen an easier solution proposed to date. But I also fear this would never be acceptable to sigil simply because of Brads take on decay.

[Syanis]

Originally Posted by Ysharros

Odball - I'm not picking on you directly but your post exemplifies an attitude I find at best rather passive-aggressive and at worst downright hostile to the poor sods who work so hard to make these games.

In comment to this many of us have been trying to make VG crafting beta since early beta (Beta 2/3 for me). After so much work and so much feedback to Devs and they ignore every warning on the issues that plague crafting now many of us will be quite sour and have every right to be and voice that sourness.

Now far as the BoE thing. While BoE has its advantages and disadvantages making crafted items only BoE is totally assanine. Crafted only BoE will destroy the little crafters have left. Adventurers given a choice would pick everytime a non BoE item they have to pay for over a BoE item everytime unless that BoE item was seriously better and still cheap.

If Crafted items are going to be BoE they need to be significantly better then drop/quest rewards and I'm not talking +2 stat points and 5 more armor for a level 50 item but say 10-15% better depending on rarity then equal level/rarity drop/quested.

Now on a diff note while crafters among their long list of needed fixes this was one suggested to work with numerous other changes which could have worked if the other changes were made like BoE all around... a serious nerf in the drop rate of rare/heroics and a serious nerf in quest rewards that yield rare/heroic/legendary since their are way way to many rare/heroic/legendary items ingame obtainable at all levels 20+ quite easily.

Now an even better idea which has been suggested by others, myself in Beta 3 and continually since is not a BoE but more so tagging an item on equip where the item can only be worn by the person its tagged to but traded / sold for decon purposes afterwards.

Right now the Devs need to realize the real issue behind all the little issues is that crafted rares/heroics are to rare and/or spendy versus the ease of adventurers getting rare/heroic drops/quest rewards that are comparable and to most adventurers considered free gear they get doing what they normally do and ALSO the fact their are legendary weapons starting at level 30 that are way better then crafted heroics that are easily obtainable by ANY adventurer who invests a small about of time. These Legendaries are basically equal to a crafted heroic 10-12 levels higher. Many adventurers 42+ are running around in most all heroic drop/quest rewards with 1-2 rares and 1-3 legendaries.

That is the real issue and it will take some serious work and either making crafted items godly and letting crafters craft legendaries starting at level 30 w/o raid components or a massive adventurer piss off with some massive nerfs to adventurering achieved drops/quest rewards on rarity level.

However though Sigil KNEW this was comming. They were warned as far back at least as begining Beta 3 and now they need to clean up their own mess that either way they are going to piss people off. However only 1 way has a chance to really bring back this dieing game and get some people back and that is to do the nerfs, more so because a game bases around uncommon with the couple rares and maybe a heroic is trivialized when the real players are decked in legendary/heroic with maybe 1-2 rares.

[Greydog]

Well, with the lack of discussion we're seeing here I'm bettin this'll go live uncontested.

woe is me.

[Riss]

I do not think it matters at this point mate, seems like this will go live anyway but who cares at this point.....