3x Crafting Weekend shows an apparent problem with the system

[Naiya]

Whatever happened to common courtesy?

The facts of the matter are these:

• The community *is* smaller
• The community is more dependant on those who are skilled to provide those skills for the greater community needs
• There are few (for whatever reason) who have decided to focus on crafting at this time

these are the facts of the matter

The facts to *not* in any way, shape, form or function preclude the demand for common courtesy. That demand can be met by a simple tell asking if someone is busy or a serverwide announcement that something/someone is needed for testing.

When you get right down to this, you are dealing with people, not bots. These people are here because they enjoy the game and they wish to see it become the best it can be.

If you wish to continue doing business with these people, I put for the following proposition (as I did this morning)

*ASK* them if they are busy
*Be Polite* when making a request
*Offer* to provide the materials or whatever help you can offer

this goes for crafting and teaming. I made a tank - just because there seem to be so few of them. If you *expect* me to be in your team because tanks are scarce and it's my *job* to come tank for you - you are mistaken.

However, if you take a minute to approach me with courtesy (the same courtesy I will approach you with should I find myself in need of your help one day) and follow the above points of asking and being polite, I will most certainly assist if my time allows.

The current state of expectations or of deserving services just because someone can provide them and you are playing on test is appalling and juvenile. It is also enough to drive some darn good people off an already low population server where they are desperately needed.

What we need here is a paradigm shift. Unfortunately, as my daddy once said "Common Courtesy is hardly common"

For those who are willing to stick it out - I thank you for your tolerance levels. You are appreciated. It's just that some people have an odd way of showing it. They figure demanding your services means that they are showing you you are needed. I would like you to know, you are valued. As testers and as players - no matter what you happen to be doing that day.

[McTaggard]

So because there are fewer players you feel its ok to demand people do what you say or they should get off your server? Is that about the gist of it? I think you fail to see the fact that if you piss off all the people who have the patience to sit and grind through the crafting your going to be left with only you and the altoholics that have already maxed out the live servers... *cough* I am not saying that people shouldn't put forth some effort to help the rest of the community, but to demand that someone do something because they are logged into a test server is just silly and short sighted.

[Florinda]

Originally Posted by Lilith

*snippity*

People need to stop acting like this is just another server with faster rates and dev interaction. If you don't want to put the server first and yourself last, you need to not be here. Things will not get tested when people start taking the attitudes of "I'm just here for my own personal enjoyment and I won't do anything I don't want to do."

Get us another 200 people online at any given time and you can act however you want, but for now, things have to be socialistic. And that means crafters ARE under an obligation to craft items.

Oh gimme a break.

If the DEVS want something tested, they will indicate what they want tested and the players on Test need to be willing to help the devs. Whether that's a particular item, a particular area, a particular recipe, a particular sphere or a particular encounter, that's what we're here to do for them.

Namdarie wanted the new diplomacy curve tested, for example, and some people went off and did that. But notice that he didn't insist that everybody drop what they're doing and go test diplomacy. He didn't browbeat or insult the players who chose to keep doing whatever they happened to be doing, nor did he tell them that if they didn't wish to test diplomacy, they should leave Test.

The rest of the time we're supposed to play the game, provide feedback and report any bugs we come across.

The player base on Test will grow, but not if the rest of the Vanguard community finds out that if you play on Test, you're obligated to do whatever any player wants.

[Ysharros]

Lilith, I may not agree with your assessment but I appreciate a polite and reasoned debate.

If it turns out that your assessment of this test server's purpose is more accurate than mine, which is a distinct possibility, then I will do the right thing, so to speak, and remove myself from the test population. My impression, gleaned only from what I read and inferred, admittedly, is that we're a "normal"-ish server, we play more or less as normal, and if focused testing is needed we will be told so (and, if required, given the tools to do so).

For me, that means that I *do* play more or less as normal on test, though I try harder to break things than I would otherwise. If this isn't the mind-set required for this incarnation of a test server, that's fair enough.

In the meantime, Naiya is right. I was brought up to be more courteous rather than less, and in the bell-jar environment of most test servers I find this just as necessary as elsewhere. It's vital in online games because we don't have facial expressions and most often don't have vocal intonation to be able to tell when someone is being deadpan and amusing rather than just being an asshat. Voice chat is changing that to some extent, but not that much and not that fast. It's really easy to misunderstand people, and it's even easier to ascribe motives to people ("jeez, he's being so bloody demanding!!") that aren't at all what they intended. I'm guilty of it more often than I'd like, but at least I'm not alone in that.

Meh. Too early. Not enough caffeine. Rambling.

Scholastic or not (and I like the term btw), I would submit that asking is always better than demanding, and requesting is always better than expecting, whether it's on Test server or anywhere else for that matter.