Crafting Mafia

[dprundle]

Originally Posted by Kato

Theres actually a word for that.

Its called "Business"

I would like to think that the freedom to chose whom to do business with, that exist in the real world, also applies in the game.


However for the "shunned" part in crafting chat, that is truly inappropriate, and who ever does that, should be warned.

I agree... They can collaborate all they want.. eventually someone bigger and better will come along anyway. The game is still very very young.

[Sigurd]

Originally Posted by Denidil Taureran

i love people who don't understand economics who argue about "Capitalism corrects everything!!!!" about one of the specific cases where capitalism breaks down (collusion between suppliers in this case)

Crafter puts up 10 Pristine Cotton bag for 4g. Another for same, another for same,etc (due to 'collusion')

A week passes. One was sold. The crafters cannot put more up (other than their alts also) nothing is selling. More time passes. They ask in /ooc etc, everyone bitches the bags aren't "worth" 4g etc.

Time passes... what do you think happens?

.....


Same scenario, instead of one guy buying one bag - 2/3 of the bags up are sold inside of a week. More are added, another decent amount sold the following week. The crafters look at their profit - meet and discuss whether lowering the price will INCREASE profit (FORGET SALES ----> we care about PROFIT, if I could price a Widget at 1MILLION dollars and sell one in a year or price it at $10 and sell 80,000 of them, I would stick with my Mil priced one. Hell, if I could sell 110,000 at $10, I'd prob still prefer the single sale - instead of 'working' making all those items - I could be partying with my dirty money...or investing it to put it further to work while I had more leisure time.) if they believed sales may increase enough to surpass current earnings AND be worth the time to make etc, then they may adjust or not.

But... basically, since people PAID the "ridiculous" "overpriced" sale price, the crafter were unfortunately positively conditioned to continue their heinous ways ;P




This isn't food. Rent. etc. Nothing forces you to buy those bags. Nothing. Certainly, lesser bags or even the lame storebought ones are an option. The diplo quest gives you 2 decently large sets of bags as well. Plus, maybe that crafter needs a shield of uberness or a bp of studliness that you can trade him for the bag. Or he may be susceptible to other inducements.


I for one have gone through multiple MMOs (with exception of my 99%/100% hand axes in DAoC) without the need of buying anything from auction houses, short of some components in EQ when I used to craft) I like either killing for my stuff (favorite) or later on crafting my own (for alts by this time since I craft these days later in the game cos too hard to deal with initial price whines to make it worth my time)

[Hitomi]

Sigurd,

I want to thank you for your posts. I won't quote them here, since they are long, but they are truly on target.

I personally get frustrated how people complain about how things are overpriced or they're being gouged when no one is forcing them to buy anything. The bag cost too much? Don't buy it! Want that weapon but it's more than you think you should have to spend? Don't buy it!

Take some responsibility for your actions, people. Whether you agree with the axiom that the market will bear the prices that people will buy at or not doesn't matter. It will happen anyways. You may not agree that gravity pulls you to the Earth (very roughly speaking for you nitpickers ;P) try saying that when you're jumping out of a plane and see how much good it does.

As the consumer you have power with your money. As the seller then have power with their product. It's a constant tug of war and no arguments about it or complaints about it will change anything. The only thing that affects market trends are market sales.

YOU decide if you want to buy something. If you don't, then don't. If you do, then do. It's YOUR choice.

[Denidil Taureran]

sigurd you just defended behavior that, in real life, would end people up in jail.

'nuff said


PS: your ideas on capitalism are rather.... biased by the laissez-faire horde and ignore fundamental requirements for a healthy capitalist economy

[Shinto]

Originally Posted by Denidil Taureran

sigurd you just defended behavior that, in real life, would end people up in jail.

'nuff said


PS: your ideas on capitalism are rather.... biased by the laissez-faire horde and ignore fundamental requirements for a healthy capitalist economy

In real life, perhaps. I won't defend the behavior, but there is no real reason for any dev/GM interference here. If the prices are too high, no one will buy. Every crafted item in this game is non-essential.

[Hitomi]

Originally Posted by Denidil Taureran

sigurd you just defended behavior that, in real life, would end people up in jail.

'nuff said


PS: your ideas on capitalism are rather.... biased by the laissez-faire horde and ignore fundamental requirements for a healthy capitalist economy

Stabbing people with weapons, burning them alive with spells and other such things would get you thrown in jail in real life too...

Once you stop doing those things, please let me know

[tehgeek]

Just saw this being debated on my server for at least 30mins or more last night. Was also talk of higher level crafters destroying recipes in order to drive prices up. Sounds crazy, and I'm sure it'll work it's way out in the end.

[Kato]

Originally Posted by Denidil Taureran

sigurd you just defended behavior that, in real life, would end people up in jail.

'nuff said


PS: your ideas on capitalism are rather.... biased by the laissez-faire horde and ignore fundamental requirements for a healthy capitalist economy

This game is also about killing others... a behaviour that gets you locked up in RL.

You cant apply RL laws to a game.

[Ceyllynn]

okay....

i'm a shammie... on thunderaxe atleast... finding decent gear on the broker is mission impossible... i don't like PUGs... and i actually solo more often than not.

so what did i do?

i became an outfitter! and then a leatherworker!.... but that requires textiles and skins!

so i picked skinning and reaping as my harvesting skills... and they're currently about 224 skinning, 365 reaping and 460 harvesting give or take a few points.

my current armour? all t2(only a 16 leatherworker, cause i do all 3 spheres) either superior/of energy or both etc... i made it myself.

how do i make money? i do missives, i kill lots and lots of stuff, a quest here and there, oh and i harvest when killing.. a lot. i also make armour on commision.

do i own a house plot? yep! do i make gear for my guildmates? all the time for free unless a rare component is involved... if i need something i cannot make i ask a guild member and trade for it.

it gives me the freedom to set my own prices for what i feel my time is worth, do i charge a lot for my armour? maybe depends on the pieces... but since i'm one of the few who actually makes stuff not just levels my crafting.. i can do that too.

do i have gold and independance to not wory about some sort of mafia? definately!

if someone tried that on me i will tell them where to go and how to get there in not so polite terms and offre to help them on their way... it's a game and someone messes with how i choose to play and run my "business" side of the game, it's ruining it for me and i am a redhead and i will not be happy.

[Kato]

yea, messing with redheads aint healthy