Couple of crafting questions

[Mopy]

Greets,

I had a bit of a problem with adventuring recently, in being stuck at the same levels for a week, so I decided to jump into crafting instead to raise some cash to buy some better gear. So I picked up artificing and somehow muddled my way through to a level 12 carpenter. I notice however, things change a lot after 11, and several questions have come about that I probably should have figured out earlier, but alas, here I am

Hopefully someone can help me out with these:

1. Where should I be spending crafting attribute points? I have a good ten or so I can spend, but unlike adventuring being clear cut, crafting seems to be up in the air. Should I balance it with my clothes and equipment? Or is there something that I should know that would be unwise or wise to pick for later levels?

2. Repair tools that are used for curing complications. Is there a trick to being able to use those, or do I just need a bigger toolbelt? I can only fit my three main tools in the belt I have now, and it doesn't seem like more than one can be used at a time.

3. Are complications supposed to be so severe at level 12? I can barely complete moderate work orders at C grade using provided materials anymore. If I hit more than two complications, it's all over (often two on their own will do it). I get the feeling it might be beacause of...

4. The + and - skills that you can set to rise and fall. For example, we have carpentry, artificer and minerolgy in one group of three. Should I just concentrate on one of those? Or two maybe? It looks like there's a max number of points to spread between each group of three bars, but I could be wrong there.

5. The complications that talk about low and moderate point penalties, yet give me a direct 'it will cost you 100 points to cure it' tidbit. Are there any percentages behind the lows and moderates? I'm having trouble figuring out whether it'd be better for me to cure them, or leave them.

6. Finally, for the carpenters out there, at what point does something come along that's actually useful and can be sold as far as end products go? My initial idea was to make some money crafting, but at the moment, I just seem to be going broke with nothing to sell that doesn't cost three times as much to make than the going price.

And.. that's it I think Any help would be appreciated.

In the mean time, back to failing 75% of my medium difficulty work orders.

/pout

Cheers,
Mopy

[Sheazy]

Some of this is the result of my own personal experience as a level 17 carpenter. More of it is a result of talking to a guy in my guild who happens to be the highest minerologist on the server :P

Originally Posted by Mopy

1. Where should I be spending crafting attribute points? I have a good ten or so I can spend, but unlike adventuring being clear cut, crafting seems to be up in the air. Should I balance it with my clothes and equipment? Or is there something that I should know that would be unwise or wise to pick for later levels?

Up until the early 20s, utility actions will comprise the majority of your skills. I always max out the stat the helps that (forget which one off the top of my head) and dump the extra into the stat the helps with tool actions. My guildie recommends not bothering at all with +problem solving. Around 22-23, the focus switches to tool actions, so a redistribution of points is necessary.

Originally Posted by Mopy

2. Repair tools that are used for curing complications. Is there a trick to being able to use those, or do I just need a bigger toolbelt? I can only fit my three main tools in the belt I have now, and it doesn't seem like more than one can be used at a time.

You can buy a toolbelt that holds 4 tools from the vendor that also sells crafting clothes. I rarely need to switch toolbelts to remove a complication, as of right now the 4 slots is plenty as long as I put appropriate tools (refining vs. finishing) before starting a WO.

Originally Posted by Mopy

3. Are complications supposed to be so severe at level 12? I can barely complete moderate work orders at C grade using provided materials anymore. If I hit more than two complications, it's all over (often two on their own will do it). I get the feeling it might be beacause of...

How is your equipment and tools? Buying upgraded equipment from the vendor will help and tools should be available on the broker. I've found it makes a significant difference to keep your stuff upgraded.

Originally Posted by Mopy

4. The + and - skills that you can set to rise and fall. For example, we have carpentry, artificer and minerolgy in one group of three. Should I just concentrate on one of those? Or two maybe? It looks like there's a max number of points to spread between each group of three bars, but I could be wrong there.

This could be part of your problem. As a carpenter, you only need to raise Carpentry and Artificing. After level 11 you can't even get minerology recipes or WOs, so get that baby down to 0 and max the other two. Also, under refining and finishing you will have skills for your utility, tool, and station actions. Again, I make sure the utility one maxes out first, keep tools a little bit less, and station even less than that. So far, it seems to be working well for me.

Originally Posted by Mopy

5. The complications that talk about low and moderate point penalties, yet give me a direct 'it will cost you 100 points to cure it' tidbit. Are there any percentages behind the lows and moderates? I'm having trouble figuring out whether it'd be better for me to cure them, or leave them.

Very low: 10%, Low: 20%, Moderate: 30%
Knowing when to cure and when to leave a complication has a huge effect on how successful you will be.

Originally Posted by Mopy

6. Finally, for the carpenters out there, at what point does something come along that's actually useful and can be sold as far as end products go? My initial idea was to make some money crafting, but at the moment, I just seem to be going broke with nothing to sell that doesn't cost three times as much to make than the going price.

I still haven't really tried to use it to make money yet honestly. I made my first attempt at the barbed wood stave on Sunday (made it +int and +spell damage) and managed to get a grade B out of it. I put it up for what I thought was a reasonable price and it still hasn't sold. I've heard bows make good money, but I haven't even made one yet. Maybe tonight

Hope that helps.

[Mopy]

That is indeed a huge help. Thanks for taking the time to write all of that sheazy. I think I see where my problems lie now, from no allocation of attribute points, still holding basic tools, and my minerology is still in the 50's somewhere. I'll fix all those up and see how it goes.

Those complication percentages are incredibly helpful also. I don't have to guess anymore

Thanks again The advice is much appreciated.
Mopy

[Ysharros]

Note also that you can equip up to 3 toolbelts and switch between them when you're crafting by using the very discreet grey "Toolbelt" button in the lower left corner of the crafting window. You've probably seen it a thousand times and never given it a second thought. Swapping belts in mid-craft costs 5 action points, but that can be well worth it if you have a comp you *have* to cancel and, like me, you just dump all your tools pell-mell into 2 belts.

Well, I do have a modicum of order in there, but as a blacksmith I frequently have to resort to my second belt. I'd rather plan on having to use 5AP than move tools back and forth in between crafts. Others prefer to stay more organised.

[SwordMage]

1. There is another school of thought that says: max out your problem solving skill so you have a better chance to clear a complication in one step.
2. I just use 3 tool belts and, as was mentioned below, spend the 5 APs to switch when needed. Until you are sure of what you are doing, we recommend leaving your character sheet up and the 3 belts open so you can see which one is active and where the tools are (after a while, you won't need the crutch any more, but it is handy at the start). Also, if you haven't get all of the 8 tools you can use, hey, their cheap.
3. Yes, they are supposed to be that severe and there are plenty of threads bemoaning that fact. The system is set up so that, until you are a few levels higher than the recipe, you are hard pressed to achieve A quality; also, I don't know if it is just me, but I seem to have more problems getting good quality on refining recipes than on finishing ones.
4. As was said set Mineralogy to '-' for Carpentry, there are only enough points to max two with none left over.
5. Deciding when to cure is an art. For instance, I don't cure very low AP penalties and I sometimes ignore station, tool, or utility penalties unless I am about to work on them or they were in the previous step in a multi-step stage; quality penalties are also easy to ignore if it is still at 0.
6. Even if you don't sell anything, you should be making a small, but steady income from work orders. Batch work orders provide the best loot if you complete all 5 items; I wouldn't bother with single item work orders unless you are grinding for faction or to get to that next level faster (more XP per combine).

[Tuor falconeye]

this has been a really helpful thread for us low levels that are struggling. i cant wait to get back and try some things out now. like stopping my minerology. i must have wasted so much trying to get that skill up to 44 at level 10. now i have just realised i probably wont need ti if i do carpentry.

thanks for all the informative posts.

[Isak]

Just one more note about crafting gear...

If you check the broker for crafting gear and tools you will probably find many items with excellent stats for crafting. These items are given as rewards for work orders and several crafters have put them up for sale. You can often get better items for not unreasonable prices there than you could from vendors. This holds true for crafting tools. Check your expertise % .. I believe you want to make as much use of items to boost that as possible.

The other thing to note is that crafters .. leatherworkers and tailors .. get recipes to craft not only crafting but harvesting gear that is also much better than a vendor offers. A blacksmith can forge tools for both crafting and harvesting that are excellent.

As has been noted, your crafting success is greatly affected by your gear. A stat that I favor and seems to have a significantly positive affect is 'crafting station use' or something of that nature.

Enjoy!
Isak

[sorkvir]

Also, a few 'tricks' of the trade....

1-) there are some 'helpful' complications. Helpful that they add tool progress, quality, etc. But bad because they have a downside. These can be a big helper on those difficult WO's.

2-) when finishing, alway plan to use the 100pt finisher. Using the 0pt one causes a 4-6% decrease in quality (yes, that's a guesstimate).

3-) On your finishing step, it doesn't matter how many complications you finish with, if you have 3 complications, and the points to finish. Just finish the session.

4-) You get xp everytime you make an item above D grade. That means that at all costs. You should finish C and above.

5-) start watching what tools you need for you refining and finishing processes (including complications). Then make sure that you have the proper tools in your equiped bag. Yes, its only 5ap, but depending on how many times you have to swap bags it can build up.

6-) Do the same with utilies and take note of what you need to take care of the complications. Take the ones that resolve the common, tough, complications and leave the less used ones in your bag.

Those are the things I've learned so far. I think there's still a ton more to go though

[Sheazy]

One other thing I thought of: Drox UI is great for crafters. It shows your current quality and progress as a %. I find it to be a huge help. For example, I'll use it to know if I can get away with a low quality bonus to bump me up to the next grade, or if I'll need a high. Same with progress. I'm sure there are other UIs that offer the same (or better) information and if you don't have one, it might be worth looking into.

[Ysharros]

I use DroxUI and love it - but for those who aren't comfortable with such mods, mousing over the progress & quality bars will give you a tooltip with the numerical value even in the default setup. That said, I've found that being able to see the values right there, as Sheazy describes, is a real help - one of those little things that just makes life a lot easier.