Russian Roulette the new name for crafting

Ceyllynn · 02-10-2007, 06:02 PM

you know... no matter what i try or do...

i swear crafting is russian roulette... i love it, don't get me wrong...

but i swear the complications are random.. you can't prevent them, mitigating them is random...

example:

i'm making a jute bag...not even going to list the failures.. there were several tho

> go to make 5 jute bolts...
get 4 "complications" total for one set..

i end up making 20 jute bolts... complications for no less than 3 each time...most are a low b/c

> go to make jute bags
get 4 "complications" total for one set.. get ripped fabric despite it being a high c, just below b

make more... can't get any less than 3 complications....

so no less than 6 complications.. each complication averages between 2/3 clicks to clear

not including how many "poor", "fair" "moderate", etc for the clicks for the regular processes.

i was deliberately going the way of cheapest points to get a min level b for each item(mainly using cleaning to get it to the B grade)

most times i couldn't neatly fold the product, not enough points left after all the complications and changing tool belts.. and i really did ignore those that i could...

5 slots for everything you need isn't enough... i grab solvent, jute bolt, cleaner, bandages, and water and garunteed it's going to ask for something i didn't have there(have to really pick and choose for other things.. choose jute bags because their relative easy recipe).

tool belts only hold 3... but cost you to change... i do keep the ruler, needle and scraper in the first one.. repair tools, sheers and brush in the second... so have to switch for complications (far too often, and the crafting gods were being nice to today.. i have had 6 complications in one making of jute bolts before).

now before you start asking for details... the complications is a common problem.. i just don't think either the points are enough, or there's too many complications, not enough tool space? who knows, but i am getting frustrated with something i do love the aspect of.

one last complaint.. we need harvesting bag...something to store the harvested materials in and a bag to store the pre-made (but too large for the crafting pouch) items in.

Ysharros · 02-10-2007, 06:36 PM

Refining always seems to get more complications for me, I'm not sure why (my skills being about even in both refining and finishing). Also, calling the Jute Bag a relatively easy recipe depends very much on your level - it's only now that my Outfitter is level 11 that she can hit As most of the time. Before that, I was happy with Cs and ecstatic with Bs. Since it doesn't change the number of slots unless you get a pristine, it doesn't matter so much with the bags in any case.

Note that your tailoring skill will play a large part in things too. If it's low, nothing you do will be as effective - again, I did dreadfully at bags till I had about 50+ tailoring.

I understand your frustrations, trust me (my venting elsewhere in this forum is proof of that) but reading what Silius has been posting in the last few days has made me realise that my expectations were a little too high. I'm not sure it's right that C grade should be the "average" but it is, and the crafting team also expect 4-6 complications to be the norm.

It doesn't sit perfectly with me yet - for me, 4 complications are bearable but more than that and I start feeling victimised by the table. However, knowing that the system is set up to make it hard for me to get more than a C on a moderate recipe does help a little -- so if the WO range holds, a Jute Bag would be moderate until level 9 inclusive and would drop to a high-easy at 10 -- and you can still get a butt ton of comps at easy. On a moderate WO, I *do* have to get lucky to get a B and extremely lucky to get an A.

Like I said, I'd rather the baseline were shifted just a tiny bit towards higher quality and less complications - but I'm not a dev, and what I'm asking for is probably the thin end of the wegde. Gear will become more plentiful and people will start passing it down, people will learn how to work the system and their skills more efficiently, and so on -- so what is insanely frustrating for us now might just be relatively difficult 6 months or 2 years down the line. And they have to cater for that - so, having calmed myself down a bit, I can understand why I'm probably not going to get my "tiny bit easier" wish.

Dunno if this helps at all, but you do have my sympathy. It helps me to know there's a good reason for it being so damned annoying sometimes (oh, and there was a buglet mixed in there too which I don't thinks has been fixed to live yet) - maybe it'll make it a little easier for you too.

Rithrin · 02-10-2007, 07:01 PM

I have the same issues. Sometimes I'll do a "Diffucult" rated batch of items for a work order with little to no complications. Or at least, complications with almost no impact. Then I'll do an "Easy" work order and get the moderate quality reduction complication over and over and over for each one. Its pretty ridiculous.

tehgeek · 02-10-2007, 08:35 PM

Really new to the crafting game, I just made level 5 today. I find myself just working threw the "complications" as I don't really notice them effecting anything for me. I sometime will touch the "moderate" ones if I have the points to waste, but most times I just plod right along like they aren't even there. I did have a point today crafting WO at the easy/medium level that I had no complications at all. There was also a Civ. Diplomacy buff up in Tursh that gave +25 to Outfitting and another for +25 to Tailoring. I'm not sure if it was those or just dumb luck that I went like 45mins+ I think without a complication.

Shinto · 02-11-2007, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceyllynn

> go to make 5 jute bolts...
get 4 "complications" total for one set..

i end up making 20 jute bolts... complications for no less than 3 each time...most are a low b/c

> go to make jute bags
get 4 "complications" total for one set.. get ripped fabric despite it being a high c, just below b

make more... can't get any less than 3 complications....

so no less than 6 complications.. each complication averages between 2/3 clicks to clear

Just to be clear, you say you are getting 3-4 comps per recipe, and each comp takes 2-3 actions to fix, correct?

Also, what level are you and at what level did you get the recipes?

Rithrin · 02-11-2007, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinto

Just to be clear, you say you are getting 3-4 comps per recipe, and each comp takes 2-3 actions to fix, correct?

Also, what level are you and at what level did you get the recipes?

It appears that most recipes are like that. Can't remember the last time I had less than 3 per attempt.

Shinto · 02-11-2007, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rithrin

It appears that most recipes are like that. Can't remember the last time I had less than 3 per attempt.

Right, but I wanted to make sure I was understanding correctly before I said so. If you get fewer than 4 comps per recipe, you are fairly lucky.

SwordMage · 02-11-2007, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehgeek

Really new to the crafting game, I just made level 5 today. I find myself just working threw the "complications" as I don't really notice them effecting anything for me. I sometime will touch the "moderate" ones if I have the points to waste, but most times I just plod right along like they aren't even there. I did have a point today crafting WO at the easy/medium level that I had no complications at all. There was also a Civ. Diplomacy buff up in Tursh that gave +25 to Outfitting and another for +25 to Tailoring. I'm not sure if it was those or just dumb luck that I went like 45mins+ I think without a complication.

This works for a while, but some complications really hurt if you don't attend to them. Ones that affect quality can lower quality even on a step that is progress only, others just force you to use up too many action points to get anything done.

I would always at least look at the complication to figure out whether to ignore it or not (Utility effectiveness on a tool step is a good candidate for ignoring).

sorkvir · 02-11-2007, 05:42 AM

I noticed a few things tonight while crafting.

I 'think' complication frequency is a combination of station skill as well as your skill in the particular 'field'. Your skill in the field will also determine how easy it is to get rid of a complication.

I started leveling my artificer up with plans to go into mineralogy. Because of this, I've been 'fine tuning' his skill progression. So far, He's 60/60/40 mineralogy/artificer/carpentry.

On mineralogy/artificer WO's. I was able to get B grade somewhat reliably (or close to it). Complications would also take 1 or 2 attempts to get rid of. There would be a odd ball 3 one in there.

On carpentry WO's, it was a whole different story. I was struggling to make C grade on some and adequately making it on others. Complications would consistently take 3 tries to get rid of. Overall, carpentry WO's sucked.

Because of this, I started skilling up the station skill as the 'highest' skill out of the 3. It 'seems' to make it easier but only time will tell.

Overall, Ihad a very educational night with my skills as I kept changing them to see what kinda of effect it'd have on my crafting. So far, I've decided that Station is number 1, and tool/utility are number 2.

Shinto · 02-11-2007, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sorkvir

I noticed a few things tonight while crafting.

I 'think' complication frequency is a combination of station skill as well as your skill in the particular 'field'. Your skill in the field will also determine how easy it is to get rid of a complication.

I started leveling my artificer up with plans to go into mineralogy. Because of this, I've been 'fine tuning' his skill progression. So far, He's 60/60/40 mineralogy/artificer/carpentry.

On mineralogy/artificer WO's. I was able to get B grade somewhat reliably (or close to it). Complications would also take 1 or 2 attempts to get rid of. There would be a odd ball 3 one in there.

On carpentry WO's, it was a whole different story. I was struggling to make C grade on some and adequately making it on others. Complications would consistently take 3 tries to get rid of. Overall, carpentry WO's sucked.

Because of this, I started skilling up the station skill as the 'highest' skill out of the 3. It 'seems' to make it easier but only time will tell.

Overall, Ihad a very educational night with my skills as I kept changing them to see what kinda of effect it'd have on my crafting. So far, I've decided that Station is number 1, and tool/utility are number 2.

I don't know exactly how all of these work, but I have been experimenting a bit also.

The specialization, in my case weaponsmithing, should be maxed, always. You always have exactly enough points to max your profession and your specialization.

I'm not sure about the station skill, though. I decided to move it around a bit, and lowered my finishing station skill to about 130 while my others were over 200 (forgot exact numbers). The number of comps in finishing now does not seem any different from that of my refining, which is fairly balanced. Having the other two so high, however, has opened up valuable actions, even if it is at the cost of station progress. I think in the end, I will raise one skill and balance the other two.