Patch change not working so well for me (vent post warning)

[Shinto]

I would like to say a few things in general to the prospective crafters who are discouraged by complications.

First, the items that I am able to make are, for the largest part, worthwhile. Obviously, copper weapons that can't take much enhancement are not going to sell for 10s each, but it is getting better daily for me.

Second, while I do wish that I were more capable of finishing the simple tier 2 recipes, the comps do one service for the crafters: They keep the market from being flooded. To make anything that sells, you have to be dedicated to and good at crafting.

Finally, take encouragement in knowing that, once you get to tier 3 recipes, you get 2500 AP, which should offset the number of complications that you get. I am told that the comps are no more common before than after that point, so the payoff in the end is worthwhile.

[sorkvir]

I'm sorry. But this was my post patch observation.

WO's still suck. Flat out. I have decided to never try above C quality because they always throw a Complication right at the end that requires 60pts to resolve 3 times which just eats up the rest of my pts causing me to fails.

As for general crafting...its fine.

I crafted a C quality Jute bolt with 800pts left. Deciding to take a plunge, I went for 5 Grade A bolts. Hit it without even breaking a sweat. Decently surprised, I went to make some bags. Not once did I run the risk of failing. I was able to craft 5 High Quality bags (grade A) and one Pristine Jute bag (100% quality). In fact, the Pristine had a complication at the end but I was in the wash cycle and couldn't get rid of it. So I used the 100pt wash.

Overall, I think WO's only have the problem which is understandable. With the new rewards, $$$, and XP, you don't want A grade WO's going left and right.

[Ysharros]

Thanks for the perspective balancing, Shinto. I'm not new at this but I hadn't considered that my venting might be putting people off trying it.

I love the crafting system as it's designed, if not as it's currently tweaked but that really is a minor issue amid the larger crafting goodness.

NOT being able to flood the market with a million Copper Foozles while we're levelling up is a great idea, and the progress (and the goodies, when present) balances out the lack of stuff to hold in my hand. If I make a foozle and sell it, I'm still only really getting money for it and adding to the general foozle overburden. With Work Orders, I get money and am not contributing to something that would ultimately weaken the economy.

The made items themselves are good even right out of the newbie gate, and hard enough to make to give a real sense of accomplishment, not to mention customisable in many different ways with the dusts.

My issues are with the current process (and to some extent with the rewards), not with the system as a whole.

[Shinto]

Sorkvir, what difficulty are the work orders that you do?

Also, it is sometimes better to leave the comps at the end than to get rid of them. I have had 3 comps on my last 3 actions before, but by ignoring them I am sometimes able to finish without a huge quality hit. Sometimes not, of course, but guessing at which is which is half the fun. =)

Originally Posted by Ysharros

My issues are with the current process (and to some extent with the rewards), not with the system as a whole.

I'm not really sure what you mean by the process.

As far as the rewards go, I have been making batches almost exclusively for the past few days, and I find the results quite satisfying. I do tend to send fewer equipment links around than other crafters seem to, but I get enough dusts to really bang out a profit and make myself some nice things.

[Dread Quixadhal]

I'd like to know what happened to the beneficial complications they used to have? During Beta 4, I remember a period of several days where I'd get as many "good" complications as "bad" ones. Obviously, they had the frequency cranked up so they could test them.... but I haven't seen a single one since then.

Not one.

Were we all bad beta testers, so they disabled them to punish us for being naughty?

I don't expect a choir to sing every time I swing my mallet, but it would be nice to see something good happen at least once or twice during an entire afternoon of crafting... especially when I can count on BAD things happening in almost every item I attempt.

[Ysharros]

Dread -- You don't get em before level 10, maybe even 11 now. And some of them are double-edged bonuses (as in, they have associated penalties so yoiu need to decide if they're worth it).

Shinto (responding, not singling out ) -- What I mean by the "process" is that it appears to me, now, to be more random than it was. Mostly I'm getting a whole lot more complications than before - but sometimes it's just over the top many (8-10 on an easy?!) and sometimes it's none (on a difficult, go figure). I feel like the logic of it and the art of predictive point-gambling has been, to some extent, taken out of my hands, and the process has less to do with my own skill now (and my char's skills) than with some random event generator.

I realise lots of other people are having different experiences, though there are still quite a few saying that whatever has happened in the last few days, it's not been a lot of fun. It's not all in my head - or if it is, I'd sure like to hear it from a dev because I'm not the only one with delusions. If anything, I'm puzzled that the last few days seem more positive for some and more negative for others - if it's not just subjective (and there's enough breadth of comment that it may not be), then maybe there's something about the way the negative-effect people are set up that's making things harder for them, or vice versa.

I rather suspect skills may work differently now - maybe I need to stop maxing out 2 skills and letting one lag behind. Maybe I need to start scavenging around for great gear. Maybe I need to get luckier with rewards - I haven't had a dust in over a week. Granted, I've hardly crafted either, because it's become not-fun and I've more productive not-fun things to do.

For all I know, I'm just having a horrid time because both the crafty lasses I've used are level 11 and that's one of those between-tiers levels that might be particularly nasty. Complications become harder and skills haven't caught up - easy WOs are *too* easy and hard WOs are *too* hard, along the same logic. However, my outfitter levelled most of the way through 11 last week, before whatever changed, and it wasn't particularly painful - there definitely seems to have been some sort of change in the last few days, I just can't put my finger on what it is other than the increasing frequency of comps. (Actually, I'm also less able to clear them - what took 1 action mostly takes 2 now, what took 2 takes 3, and so on. But that may be a whole different kettle of fish.)

I'm passionate about crafting - it's the main reason I've followed VG for so long, it's the main reason I'm playing now. I vented because sometimes one just has to (though I am also trying to be productive and constructive about it). If I feel things aren't right I'm going to mention it till we figure out what, if anything, is going on.

Heh - sorry if this sounds defensive. It's not supposed to, other than a slight feeling of being dismissed on the crafting channel by those who haven't had problems lately and who (in the usual MMO way) assume that the rest of us are just being whiny hysteria-mongers. I'm not assuming anyone here is being dismissive, far from it.

[Nimikos]

Add me to the list of folks that thinks crafting has been made un-fun.

I really like the idea of WO vs. making real stuff.

But these insane complications have to go.

Sorry, I don't subscribe to the 'make it annoying and I'm the only one who will make money, cause I'm the only one who will stick to it'

</rant>

[Arcalus]

My take on all this, and of course we haven't heard from every single crafter, is that most people aren't enjoying crafting right now. I know that it's a pain, so I've been running around doing the different continent style quests, and the tier quests for each continent to pass the time.

I too feel that crafting has become much more a "job" than play. I'd like to see others chime in on this, lets get a consensus as to how people like the system the way it is.

Silius reads and responds to this forum, so if no one likes the way it is, lets let him know.

[Ysharros]

All this being said, I'm still pretty sure whatever it is that's happening wasn't intentional and that the LAST thing Silius and the crafting team was is for us guys to not be having fun.

I may rant and vent, but I have no delusions of dev-persecution. I just hope we can work out what's happening.

[Dread Quixadhal]

Originally Posted by Ysharros

Dread -- You don't get em before level 10, maybe even 11 now. And some of them are double-edged bonuses (as in, they have associated penalties so yoiu need to decide if they're worth it).

Hmmm, that's unfortunate. Hiding parts of the system until you reach some particular level is not the best way to encourage people to become crafters. One of the things I liked was that complications showed up right away, but typically only when doing moderate or harder difficulty recipies. I, wrongly it seems, assumed beneficial complications were simply a more rare event.

It's one thing to not give you the full toolset until you've learned how to use it. Most people don't learn castling or the en passent rules of chess when they're playing their first games either. However, complications are not choices we can use or not use... they are random events. If I only ever seen BAD events, I'll assume they're all bad and am more likely to get discouraged and give up.

Slighly off topic, but one other thing that is counter-intuitive to me... the complications last for X number of turns (5 seems typical), yet no counter is visible to tell you when they will dissipate. They also have hit points, which you have to wear down by countering them. I originally thought that a partial counter would reduce their duration, but it looks like it's all or nothing.

Am I right in that? Quite often I wouldn't mind my counter only whittling 2 turns off a 5 turn compilcation for XX action points, but having to hit 3 counters to solve it is sometimes more expensive than just riding it out.

That isn't so much a complaint, as just me wishing I understood the mechanics a little more closely so I could make more informed decisions. I know they're still tweaking things too, but if I know how the process works, I can fudge the numbers.