Why All the Hate?

I always try to look at things at a slightly different angle than most. This week, it is no different as I witnessed some of the most brutal debate in a long time. The two major themes were PvP vs PvE and Casual vs Hardcore. Am I the only one who is astonished over the ferocity of the debates? It is, after all, just a game.

Point 1: PvP vs PvE

The differences are obviously huge. In all fairness, I have never played on a PvP server, although, the guild I am hoping to play Vanguard with will be on the or a PvP server. I have had several conversations regarding the decision to PvP or not to PvP with a friend of mine. He really brought to light some points that I never really looked at as a PvE person.

He said the guild is incredibly tight. Everyone looked out for everyone. There is a bigger sense of danger in that you could be “ganked” at anytime, especially traveling alone. Isn’t that the same in today’s “real” world? You could be robbed at the ATM tonight or hit the 1.21 jigawatt mega lotto this Wednesday night. No one knows. This is one of the elements that draws people into the PvP sphere.

Guilds are just as tight on PvE servers. While PvE players do not have to worry about being PKd, they do have concerns. They worry about the E in PvE. They need to progress through the content and experience it all. It is not a race, most PvE will experience 80 percent or more of the content in the game, they just will not be on the leading edge. PvE players can solely focus on character development without the worry of being steamrolled by stronger, more powerful players or rival guilds.

PvP offers instant justice, with a price. There is no instancing, so get over it. Here you are, grouping with guild mates, when a rival guild comes in and kill steals (KS) a mob you have being working toward. You have the opportunity to kill them and loot more than the item(s) they just looted from the mob. Moreover, if they really tick you off, you can have a guild war. While this seems cool for a bit, all PvE aspects of the game will come to a halt as you are more concerned about murdering your rival guild than killing uber dwagon 0602.

On a PvE server you just call mom, the GM, and they roll in using the “tools” at their disposal to figure out what just happened. The GM response could be quick (5 minutes or less) or days. It just depends on the luck of the draw. And while a certain guild may get a bad name, what will really happen? I have witnessed KSing on Veeshan so many times where the “offender” got away unscathed. How many of us have ever heard the phrase, “The first ones to engage”?

People build reputations very quickly on PvP servers, whether they are good ones or bad ones, depend on the person. Undoubtedly, the poor newbie will be player killed (PK) by some one of a higher level. This is much more the exception than the rule. I think a lot of the PvP people sekritly will admit that they have whacked a noob just because once or twice. It is kind of like hazing, welcome to the club kid. However, if you run around shwacking people, the server population will become keenly aware of your exploits and common “good” and begin to hunt you mercilessly.

Diplomacy means something entirely different in PvP. You are not just politically jousting with NPCs, but other people who can kill you, loot your prized possessions, and roll along their merry way while you get on your mount and run back to you tombstone. This is the dynamic which PvE people have a hard time grasping. It is just not enough to kill uber_mob0576, you have to make peace with other guilds. Or, sign an armistice like the Americans and Koreans. Otherwise, you will be whacking people left and right and never going through content.

So in conclusion of point one, there is a different dynamic in PvP than PvE. I am not here to say one is better than the other. They are two different animals that have both pros and cons. There in no reason to say one is better than the other. I think people can have a lot of fun on either side of the isle. And I know there are many PvErs out there that would just once, really like PK some of those special people who have KSd a mob.

Point 2: Casual v Hardcore

I have a much stronger opinion here, much stronger. In full discloser I would be considered a hardcore player. I will game roughly 40 hours a week. I will raid, group, and craft as much as my guild can stomach. I want to experience the end game content of Vanguard. I will be active in all phases of the game.

I am having a really hard time accepting that a group of six, seven, or eight players should get the same types of loots that a raid of say 54 does. I cannot accept that someone who games 12 to 15 hours a week should have the same gear, or comparable, to that of someone who games 30 or 40 hours a week. Now before all the casual gamers go nuts, there are some valid arguments that need to be made as far as casual gamers are concerned.

Argument one: "I do not have the time that hardcore gamers have, but I want to experience all of the content that Vanguard will offer" (and there will be a lot of content). This is completely understandable. Moreover, sometimes casual gamers get in an eight hour session and crawl through a dungeon. Why should they not get some type of high end item?

The fact is there will be nice items in the group type of environment. If you look at the breakdown Mr. McQuaid has talked about, it is something like 60 to 70 percent of the time he would like us to be grouped, 20 percent of the time raiding, and 10 percent with some type of solo activity. In the recent E3 video the speaker says that you can solo to 50 by soloing, however, you will not get there nearly as quickly as if you group. In other words, sorry necros, but no quad kiting for uber XP and lewtz.

I think the point that a lot of casual players miss is that there is a considerable difference in grouping for eight hours and raiding for six. Raiding, by sheer numbers alone, is incredibly more complex. Math in public! /duck

Assumptions:
Raids in Vanguard will have 54 players.
Groups in Vanguard will have 6 players.
Each decision point will be 4 seconds as each combat round in between 4 and 5 seconds.

Group Difficulty:
60 divided 4 = 20 decision points per second (Used for both groups and raids)
20 times 6 = 120 decision points per minute per six man group
120 times 60 = 7200 decision points per hour
7200 times 8 = 57,600 decision points per eight hour grouping session

Raid Difficulty:
20 times 54 = 1080 decision points per minute for a raid
1080 times 60 = 64,800 decision points per hour for a raid
64,800 times 6 = 388,800 decision points per six hour raid

These numbers speak volumes. Remember, while grouping the level of difficulty is designed for only a six man group. Two or maybe three mobs max? Also, the difficulty will be designed for healing and tanking respectively. How much more room can be left for diplomacy or crafting while “adventuring”?

There will be massive amounts of flexibility in a raid as far as how things will be encountered, confronted, and conquered. There will be more people to do different things. You may have a diplomacy group and or a crafting group (or two!) inside your raid. While people battle mobs your crafters work to mine ore for new armor or your diplomats begin negations for a truce.

However, for a group, there are not enough people accomplish everything you can in a raid on the same scale. In the grouping environment, the mobs will always have to be geared downwards to support a six person group. There will be golden mobs and certain encounters that will reward groups of mighty adventures who complete a certain tasks. But when you measure the accomplishments of a group to a raid, there really is a difference.

What ticks me off with this entire debate is that somehow casual gamers are, in some way, inferior. This is a huge misnomer and nothing could be further from the truth! Many casual gamers are incredibly skilled players who just do not have the time to invest like the hardcore gamer and in fact, could make several hardcore players look silly. I remember the Best of the Best competitions where a no-named casual player would stomp all over well known players of uber guilds. Why? Because they had to know their class and get more out of it due to less then high-end gear.

No one style of play is better than the other. It just so happens that raiding is where you can add all the elements together in a large scale faction. I realize that if you are grouping you can have just as long CRs as a raid. However, instead of wasting just six people’s time, now you are wasting 54 people’s time.

Casual players need to have good gear and loot drops. There is no denying this. However, it is unreasonable to think that casual gamers should be able to get equivalent loot drops to full blown raids, or gear close to raid loot. This is not to say that a casual crafter cannot make some high-end stuff, I hope they can. However, this needs to be exceptional in nature.

In the end a lot of us will group a lot, however, lets make sure dragon 0986 is not able to be taken down by a six man group. Additionally, I hope that a six man group cannot get loot equivalent to dragon_0986, even after a long session.

Sidebar:

It is an exciting time to be following Vanguard. Could beta 3 be right around the corner? Are you going to beta? I don’t think I will. I want “zone in” for the first time and just be blown away. I know I will be.

Until next time,
Melchizedek CEJ – FTW