Vanguard Spheres  

Welcome to the Vanguard Spheres forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view our discussions, articles/interviews and photo galleries. By joining our community you will gain access to post your own topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features and tools like our upcoming Guild Management Tool (GMT). Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

As a bonus this banner will disappear once you are registered! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact support.

Home Forums WikiSphere Gallery Chat Arcade Today's Posts
Go Back   Vanguard Spheres > The Courier > The Grand Library > Articles
Register FAQ Members List Who's Online Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Comment
 
LinkBack (1) Article Tools
Macro-Mining and EULA's
Macro-Mining and EULA's
Published by Aredhel
03-01-2006
Macro-Mining and EULA's

It seems that there are a lot of people contesting rules and "laws" set by game companies. Of course, there has always been those who have wanted to stretch the rules a bit, or just flat deny their existance, and have made gameplay for many people downright awful! Ever been victim of one of those who screech about, "I paid my $14/month to play this &$*# game, and I'll do what I *@*& well want to! BUG OFF!"

*shudder*

And it seems that the latest phenom to hit...not that it's new, but just increasingly worse...is the gold farming that takes place in various games, if not all of them. Is it just gold? Nope! Items are a hot commodity in the market place too. Just ask the secondary market companies about making money from games. Then, ask the players who deal with the power gamers-turn-farmers-and-entrepreneur (wealthy, I might add!) about how that affects their gameplay and the game as a whole. It causes a cavity in the whole environment that grows and becomes painful! The enjoyment is diminished for many because of the "instant wealth" that seems to overtake some and the blight it causes on the game/server economy.

A few years ago, I had a guy go on a rant about EQ and how he paid his money and he was an attorney and he was going to take SoE to court and....well, you get the idea. My character just stood there. Too bad you can't make jaws drop, because I was not believing what I was hearing. However, being the game geek I am (just can't get into power gaming, so I watch for the unobvious), I reminded this "attorney" that another game's EULA had stood up in court and had set precedence for all other game companies. He continued to rant and fuss and go off. I charged him 25p for the language (which did cause a break in the action, believe me!), and told him if he felt that way, to just quit and let us have fun.

He quit. (YAY!)

What any company or law firm does is to find cases that have been tried in courts and use those as a model, when possible. For instance, in answer to what happened in 2004 with Blizzard vs BnetD, we find the following response to what the closing sentence in that article said ("Blizzard executives might have to hire a second set of lawyers to protect themselves against their own legal victory.") here. This from one group that has taken on the gaming law challange! Notice this part:

Quote:
The court upheld the EULA and TOU as enforceable contracts, rejecting various arguments by defendant that a contract was not formed through the click-thru process.
Anyone want to cheer? Go ahead. I can wait!!!

We still have idiots out there with their heads in the sand, as this person who wrote about an XBOX 360 issue:

Quote:
To my knowledge, EULAs have never been upheld in court.

Besides, I usually bypass them anyway.
*sigh* Check the dates. Where has this guy been?

Doesn't it really make you wonder what goes thru the minds of people when they buy a game? Or, you could take that pretty much into the real world documentation, as well! Rules of the road, maybe? The ones people spend SO much time writing just to have someone try to tell an officer, "Hey...I paid for this car! I'll drive it the way I want to!" ...... not! Makes as much sense, tho!

So, let's take this a step further:

We have all heard about the game Eve-online, right? No? Ok...don't feel bad. It's a biggie, but the name doesn't get thrown around as much. Anyway, this particular company is taking a hard-core stance against gold-farming! And when I say "hard-core", that's exactly what I mean. One warning...that's all you get! Already been found to have sold/bought on open market? BYE-BYE! *BAN button*

Macro-miners...Gold Farmers...it's become a serious problem. Some call it part of life and therefore, should be allowed to come ingame. Well, ok, so irl, we do have griefers, losers, winners, thieves, murderers...does this mean we go ingame to emulate real life or to escape it? Granted, some people do play games to achieve all the wealth, love and power they can't seem to find outside of that glowing box in front of them, but when it comes to the intent of the game they are playing, does it make it right?

Read this and get some good things to think about! Fortunately, Abalieno (writer for The Cesspit) linked a lot of things, so it made my life easier. You can run thru them and see what you think about it all. It boils down to the simple fact that game producers can develop their rules and should be able to STICK to them without being slammed into court by someone who doesn't like the fact they don't get their way...even tho they "signed", a document upon logging in stating that they would adhere to the EULA and Rules of Game!

In this thread on the Eve board, one of the GMs commented:

Quote:
Just this morning, I have permanently banned about 50 accounts for sellking ISK (gold) and I have removed billions of ill gotten ISK from buyers. Those who buy ISK are directly encouraging all kinds of illegal activity such as macroing, hacking and more so this, as GM Arkanon stated, WILL NOT BE TOLERATED and the buyers will face dire consequences as well as the sellers.

GM Grimmi
Senior Game Master
Any questions?

Didn't think so!

So, the question is now, who is going to be the first of the x-amount of now-banned players who will take this to court and try it? The EULAs have already proven that they can stand up in court! Rules of Conduct/Game and EULAs both usually state that you agree to follow what the company has outlined as their rules...and has taken a LOT of space in explaining prior to you checking off the "Yes, I agree" box! It's bound to happen, tho! Why? Well...try this:

Quote:
“My tax return for that year which has salary from 2 months of my job which I quit to make this my full time business, showed $150,623.78 after expenses. By this time I had made another character on another server and bought myself another computer and was playing on two. I killed guards in everfrost and sold the weapons to vendors and then bought items from players, or sold the platinum. That's the entirety of what I did to make that income.”
NOW are there questions?? (I found this quote incorporated in this article from Gamasutra) This is just frightening!

I could go on and on citing instances (like the sweatshops now in China, etc, with sleep-deprived people) and pulling out all the examples of the "why's" and "wherefore's" of this dilema but I think I will close with a final link and quote from Hexenworld:

Quote:
You don't like the license? Use a different utility and take your chances with a different license. But either way, sell your levels, end up in court. Unfortunate, yes, but when you're the software developer, you'll be thankful.
And, if that's not good enough (and everyone knows I can't stop when I'm on a roll), try the quote from Brad McQuaid from his interview with Yahoo:

Quote:
...my message to those companies that don't make games but merely profit -- illegitimately, I might add -- from these practices, interfering with games never designed for the external influence of real life monies and such: "Be a man about it and make your own game. Go for it. Use all those millions and make an awesome game. Earn respect. Don't ask for it.
nuff said!
Article Tools

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #1 (permalink)  
Greymain on 03-01-2006, 02:18 PM
Re: Macro-Mining and EULA's

Nice article. I am exactly the sort of guy on paper who would cheat. I have health problems that will slow me down. I am fairly well off and could afford to buy my way to......where??????

What on earth would I do with a capped character and a billion Plat in the bank????

Answer .. nothing I could not join in Raids cos of my lack of class knowledge.
Whats the point of quests and hunting when I can buy anything I want.

I could strut around a bit to show off, but i would face being recognised by players who knew my character as it was being leveled.. I would fear my characters reputation aquired prior to my ownership... If it was a sweatshop job then I would have reputation as a ruthless powerplayer with no friends in the game this would create problems joining a guild.

I played a Korean MMORPG where all these transations happened back in 1999.
We knew all the high level players.

We knew who was rich and who was poor.

I handed my high level character to a guildmate, the event was broadcast to the shard and the change was accepted. 5 level 180 characters that appeared out of nowhere one day ( we thought a sort of corporate day out for friends of the game company) were hounded out of the game.

We the players handled cheats.. we had no CS to support us.

So how come modern day cheats get away with it? Answer lack of community and the real challenge for Sigil or any MMORPG is to create a active and committed sense of community.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Nabren on 03-01-2006, 02:58 PM
Re: Macro-Mining and EULA's

Well, I know someone in my area that neglected to buy his own child food because he had to buy gold off IGE. It's really getting out of hand and I don't forsee the problem getting any better.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Jaeth on 03-01-2006, 03:09 PM
Re: Macro-Mining and EULA's

Very, very nice article, Aredhel. And nice comment by Greymain.

I agree with both of you. Cheating/botting/hacking - you name it - does not belong in an MMORPG. It's miserable and pathetic when people take this shortcut. I'm all for permabans all over if you can't adhere to EULAs and TOUs - because some people don't understand the word "wrong" - but they certainly know what "ban" means.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Aredhel on 03-01-2006, 07:46 PM
Re: Macro-Mining and EULA's

My son has played WoW pretty much since it came out, but has quit now. He talked about gold farmers and explained what they were to me. That was...what...long time ago now. I look at EQ now and even g-mail is advertising all sorts of plat and stuff from all these places. No wonder the game has changed so drastically! The very word "Exchange" has nasty implications to players of games!

Thank you for the nice compliment on the article, tho. It's one of a couple I've thought about, but with things happening most recently here, it's what I decided to look into first. What really is exciting to me are the positive comments from the players about the stance! And, since it's on open forum, anyone can keep track or the progress! And, if you want to register on their forum, go for it!

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that VSoH will be able to go with the trend that we're seeing here!!! Will definately make for a more fun and long-lasting game!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Bootstrap on 03-02-2006, 12:05 AM
Re: Macro-Mining and EULA's

That is a great article you wrote. It would be refreshing to see a change in how the in game economies operate if and when everybody adheres to these standards. Here is hoping that Sigil remains diligent in fighting this problem because you know the farmers will be bringing the fight to them.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
trent on 03-03-2006, 08:19 AM
Re: Macro-Mining and EULA's

vegas all vegas
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
fanliorel on 03-21-2006, 03:06 PM
Re: Macro-Mining and EULA's

I hate to admit it, but loong ago (like, early 2000), I bought two EQ items off of ebay. Back then I was brand new to MMOs, and even ebay was new to me, and I just couldn't believe how cool it was that you could buy virtual items in real life. I was a broke college student, but I bought a couple things, just for the heck of it (Lambent Greaves, I still remember those...can't remember what the other thing I bought was).

Anyway, i was naive and new to it all back then, BUT even then I knew it wasn't quite right. I never felt right about those pants, even though I'm pretty sure the sellers were just regular guys - not farmers.

I just want to point out that not all people who succumb to buying items are evil. Some are just foolish kids like I was. Most probably aren't, unfortunately - they're looking to get ahead. And, if you view video games as a hobby (which they are of course), there are always people willing to blow a lot of money on their favorite hobbies. Many people buy with a good conscience, believe it or not. But it's still not right in my opinion, and I want to add my voice to everyone else's about this.

There was an interesting thread started by an ex-farmer on the old EQ Diva site. http://www.eqdiva.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=83071 is the link if anyone's interested - quite an interesting story.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Taronn Anvilmarr on 03-31-2006, 09:22 AM
Re: Macro-Mining and EULA's

EULA's = be nice have fun.

If its not fun then why do it - buying a pre-made char is beside the point of the game.

The journey in getting a high lvl char is the point.

those who do the buying are not playing to have fun with the game - they are playing to destroy the game.

I agree - ban em and be done with it.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Pirotess on 03-31-2006, 10:07 AM
Re: Macro-Mining and EULA's

Actually I'd say they are playing to win the game but winning a MMORPG is at best subjective and more likely futile to even try since they are constantly evolving and expanding.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Comment

  Vanguard Spheres > The Courier > The Grand Library > Articles


LinkBacks (?) LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.vanguardspheres.com/forums/articles/4823-macro-mining-eulas.html
Posted By For Type Date
Articles - Vanguard Spheres: an official affiliate fansite This thread Refback 01-04-2007 04:53 PM

Article Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new articles
You may not post comments
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:25 PM.



SEO by vBSEO 3.0.0

Article powered by GARS 2.0.0 ©2005-2006 Regency Sword © T. King @ Tkingart.com
Trademarks are the property of Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Game content and materials copyright Sigil Games Online, Inc. All rights reserved.