Diplomacy is Worthless

[Rithrin]

Originally Posted by Siul

I agree with you but that brings the question of the definition of fun.
<snip>
In the end, to each his own....

Exactly. For instance, fun to me is constant change. Usually in the form of what challenge I'm given. If you throw me a punch, don't throw me a punch from the exact same direction the second time - I'll expect it and isn't really fun. Diplomacy, as much potential as it has, is essentially the NPCs throwing you the same punch repeatedly so the proper defense never changes. I skilled up from ~50 to 75 using the exact same set of cards using the exact same order of commands. It got to a point where I didn't even have to watch the parlay screen, I just made sure I hit the cards in the same order. This experience hasn't changed for me even past that skill. If its a Convince parlay I use one set of cards, if its an Interview I use another set and so forth. As long as I keep doing one type of parlay I never have to switch my set of cards. Sure, I could switch around a card or two to take advantage of a certain NPC's special card or what have you, but I don't need to since I'll win either way. To me, this is not fun.

And that has nothing at all to do with "rewards" of any type. I would love to see non-quest NPCs that absolutely force you to diverge from your take-on-all-comers deck to beat them. (Although quest NPCs aren't all like that, either)

[Calenor]

Hey diplomats..

I didn't have the time to read the whole thread but I checked the first posts. All I can say is that I love diplomacy, no logical mmo player can characterize it as "terrible". I think VG is the first mmo game to introduce a stand alone sphere as diplomacy (Knights of the Old Republic has a card game but its a single player RPG anyway and its only for fun). I like it in every perspective. However I have one suggestion/remark.

Compared to the crafting sphere where you can actually make money and create items for your adventuring sphere, in diplo you can't, or at least not yet. It's great to have diplo quests, new diplo items, unlocking dungeons etc but as far as diplomacy is not directly connected with the other spheres its potential will never be untapped.

For instance, I would love to see adventuring items gained from diplomacy quests. Maybe convincing a really stubborn dwarf NPC crafter to create a really powerful weapon/armor for you, or at least enchant one of your own.
Or by gaining prestige faction in certain areas you could be able to buy items in a much lower price (but I guess that prerequisites that vendors have actually something good to sell :P).

Anyway, my point is that as far as diplomacy only provides diplo items, is like crafting the best weapon and not be able to use it as an adventurer.

Calenor

[Silverfox13]

Originally Posted by FEDS-91

From what I gather, by this statement:
'Will diplomats be able to charge for giving access to these quests and recipes?'

Gives the feeling of possible greed and or overcharging. But, thats just the feeling I get. Not saying thats the actual intention of the OP.

On my server I have already seen payment for service in the form of gold for buffs (generally crafting ones), I think the going rate was 1 gold for a 1 hour buff. Now that there are additional areas connected to the civic diplomacy this could have more potential with the adventuring sphere (I know I love the 5% bonus damage buff). I would suggest that you set up a nice pretty macro advertising your services.

The other additional benefit is the story lines. While this may not be everyones cup of coffee, I did enjoy confusing some woman on her way to Tursh and then seeing her in Reinhold (sp?) field being annoyed by the halflings. And that was just a low level diplomacy quest, if there is any better Sphere for Game Immersion, Roleplaying and World Flavor it is diplomacy. You may not want to diplomacy all the time, but it is enjoyable while waiting on a group, or if you need a break from any other level grind.

On a side note one of the games that Vanguard seems modeled off is the early Star Wars Galaxy system (which seemed to have 3 sphere system and was run/butchered by SOE) required that Diplomats ran the player cities. I have heard uncomfirmed rumors that there may be player cities in the future, and I would imagine a possible tie into Diplomacy if it is.

[Drunkensot]

Originally Posted by Calenor

Hey diplomats..

I didn't have the time to read the whole thread but I checked the first posts. All I can say is that I love diplomacy, no logical mmo player can characterize it as "terrible". I think VG is the first mmo game to introduce a stand alone sphere as diplomacy (Knights of the Old Republic has a card game but its a single player RPG anyway and its only for fun). I like it in every perspective. However I have one suggestion/remark.

Compared to the crafting sphere where you can actually make money and create items for your adventuring sphere, in diplo you can't, or at least not yet. It's great to have diplo quests, new diplo items, unlocking dungeons etc but as far as diplomacy is not directly connected with the other spheres its potential will never be untapped.

For instance, I would love to see adventuring items gained from diplomacy quests. Maybe convincing a really stubborn dwarf NPC crafter to create a really powerful weapon/armor for you, or at least enchant one of your own.
Or by gaining prestige faction in certain areas you could be able to buy items in a much lower price (but I guess that prerequisites that vendors have actually something good to sell :P).

Anyway, my point is that as far as diplomacy only provides diplo items, is like crafting the best weapon and not be able to use it as an adventurer.

Calenor

I agree with that (except I never "loved" diplomacy). I've been in closed and open beta for LOTRO (which I like - a fun casual game) and have signed up for it post release, and was wondering when Sigil/SOE will expand/revise/fix up diplomacy to give it some real connection to the rest of the game. It's another lost opportunity for this game. To me, it's as if they added a poker game instance in each city, where you can spend hours playing poker and getting winnings, which then can't be spent in the rest of the game.
In any event, something needs to be done pronto to fix up this game and make it more fun. And waiting for Vista to force computer upgrades won't do the trick.

[Rithrin]

Hey, letting you sit around and play poker in taverns would not be a bad idea at all. It could be a way of hearing lore and rumors without the massive diplo grind. Of course, it wouldn't be the same type of information you get from diploe. It would just be the kind of random stuff people talk about on poker night with their friends, you know?

[Drunkensot]

Ive been away from this game for a while. Does diplomacy still suck? Can you get anything in it that relates to the rest of the game? I gave my advice earlier in this thread on a lot of improvements that might make this boring grind somewhat entertaining, but the major change in the works its seems, is to divide the diplo skill by ten and give you bubbles to track your "progress".

[Aredhel]

Nice way to say "hi" with sweet optimism!

Not everyone thought it was so bad, so maybe try a bit more tact and ask what the current thoughts are about Diplo?? Maybe?

They are working a lot on many things, if you've kept up with the notes. Lots more to do and they're working like crazy people on it! I think most of us are glad to see the energy being put into fixing things and making the game run smoother!

BTW...Heya!

[Drunkensot]

I take it that you still cant get something that can be used in adventuring, per my previous suggestions. Is there any consideration of doing this? I don't see how it would be too difficult a change to implement.

[Aredhel]

I'm not sure about that. I haven't spoken to Aruspex, but I know they're working on a zillion things ingame currently!

[LadySirse]

In my understanding each sphere is separate in a sense from the others. Meaning, while adventuring you won't find a crafting or diplomacy item as loot. While crafting you won't get a adventuring or diplomacy reward. And therefore while doing diplomacy you will not receive a crafting or adventuring item.

This is logical based on the stated descriptions of the way the spheres have been created.

That leads me to why you feel such a need to have this any different? Have you tried diplomacy since you have returned? If you do not care for it why raise such a fuss? I can assure there are many many people who not only enjoy things the way they are but are quite addicted to this sphere. In my guild alone we have one who has maxed out on diplomacy and another very close to doing so.

I am really interested in your thoughts. Please share them.