Diplomacy is Worthless

[Aredhel]

wow....I so love our readers!!!

Thanks!

[MagicNumbers]

No problem folks. I'll be on the look out for as much info as you can handle.

[Drunkensot]

Originally Posted by Naiya

QFE

best two lines I have EVER read regarding the Diplo sphere! As for the rest, it's good to see the OP's original concerns are going to be addressed.

How will we be able to dodge mobs with diplomacy? This actually sounds good if it is implemented, such as something that allows you walk through an area and not aggro. I am beginning to see some light here. Being able to use diplomacy as part of adventuring would be a good idea, and make this game unique. Being stuck in the cities parlaying with the NPCs should not be the whole extent of this thing. Glad to see the devs are working on this and realize it needs more content.

[Naiya]

Originally Posted by Drunkensot

How will we be able to dodge mobs with diplomacy? This actually sounds good if it is implemented, such as something that allows you walk through an area and not aggro. I am beginning to see some light here. Being able to use diplomacy as part of adventuring would be a good idea, and make this game unique. Being stuck in the cities parlaying with the NPCs should not be the whole extent of this thing. Glad to see the devs are working on this and realize it needs more content.

Drunkensot, at the risk of sounding irate (please understand I'm not - I just think something needs to be emphasized because it is being missed)

The Diplomacy sphere will be used in towns to communicate, cohere, or influence NPC characters. Your skill, class, and choices during diplomacy will determine how NPCs treat your character, whether you can gain access to certain areas, receive quests, or purchase some items. Towns and cities will be”diplomacy dungeons.” Instead of the usual break from the main adventuring game, negotiating a town will be an active experience with its own rewards and challenges.

you will still need to be "stuck in the cities parlaying with the NPCs". That is where Diplomacy happens. It does not happen in the wilderness with mobs. It happens in the cities with the power players in those towns.

What I would like to see as an effect of diplomacy is thus: (**DISCLAIMER - This is just my opinion and an exaggerated idea that would illustrate what the OP is looking for**)

you know all those KOS areas? Lets say you are a Varanji Diplomat. You are KOS in the Dwarven area right? Well, lets say that you and a bunch of your Varanjar friends got together, worked up faction there in Dwarf country and then started working the diplomacy magic. What if... after a while (kinda like the way you can do the bonus to crafting etc) the dwarfs start to think the Varanjar aren't half bad. I mean, You're not the frothing-at-the-mouth barbarians that those wicked dark elves claimed you were.

Well now, you've just made the Dwarven area safe for Varanjar to travel in and not be KOS by the guards.... and you made it easier for all those players playing Varanjar because they don't need to work up their faction *right away*

Through time, all the buffs change and return to normal. There are factions working against you as well (darned dark elves) but in the mean time, you've made the area a little safer for your Varanjar brethren. THIS IS THE POWER OF DIPLOMACY

The corollary is also true.... what if you want to get back at those coniving dark elves for the dwarven area being KOS to you, maybe you want to work with your fellow diplo's to make it pretty ugly to those lying thieves....*

(**DISCLAIMER - This is just my opinion and an exaggerated idea that would illustrate what the OP is looking for**)

I'm not claiming this is how it is but I AM saying the power of diplomacy is there for those who wish to stay in the towns and cities to do the quests to make the area better for their fellow adventurers. The dev's will implement what they feel is appropriate, but honestly, from the posts, it sounds like diplomacy is not your cup of tea. Nothing will change the need for the diplomats to be in the populated areas, that is where all the mechanizations and red tape of the bureaucracy are. That is where the diplomats need to be.

*I have a Dark Elf, and a Varanjar - I used those two races not to attack either of them but to have a bit of fun with stereotypes. No offense was meant to either race or the players therein

[Drunkensot]

Why not have a high diplo skill allow you to enter the bugbear cave? Why only in cities? That sounds too limiting.

Here's a good idea: At a high enough skill level, some quests could be done through negotiating with leaders - a parley with the guard to obtain entrance, and then a parley with the boss to talk him out of his weapon etc. But, if you fail the parley, they all kill you.

Im not going to spend all my time playing an endless series of repeated parleys in a few towns just to buff everyone else for free. I'm already sick of talking to the people in Tursh.

[Nil]

Originally Posted by Drunkensot

Why not have a high diplo skill allow you to enter the bugbear cave? Why only in cities? That sounds too limiting.

Here's a good idea: At a high enough skill level, some quests could be done through negotiating with leaders - a parley with the guard to obtain entrance, and then a parley with the boss to talk him out of his weapon etc. But, if you fail the parley, they all kill you.

Im not going to spend all my time playing an endless series of repeated parleys in a few towns just to buff everyone else for free. I'm already sick of talking to the people in Tursh.

Well, just to add a little something. They already have quests where if you fail, they'll kill you (well, they'll try to anyway).

And it does extend to adventuring areas, especially when faction is considered.

[RandomPixie]

Originally Posted by Drunkensot

Why not have a high diplo skill allow you to enter the bugbear cave? Why only in cities? That sounds too limiting.

Here's a good idea: At a high enough skill level, some quests could be done through negotiating with leaders - a parley with the guard to obtain entrance, and then a parley with the boss to talk him out of his weapon etc. But, if you fail the parley, they all kill you.

Im not going to spend all my time playing an endless series of repeated parleys in a few towns just to buff everyone else for free. I'm already sick of talking to the people in Tursh.

No one is asking you to. That's the beauty of having different spheres.

[Naiya]

Originally Posted by Drunkensot

...
Im not going to spend all my time playing an endless series of repeated parleys in a few towns just to buff everyone else for free. I'm already sick of talking to the people in Tursh.

I will say - through your own admission - diplomacy is not for you. I would look into crafting (doing for others for a price) or adventuring (doing for yourself and occasionally helping others)

If adventuring in cities to change the region for the betterment of your peers is not what interests you, you are like my BF, simply not a diplomat.

Again, that's cool. It's ok. The game needs all types to make it work and I bet you are one KILLER teammate. I'd be glad to pick you up in a raid or group, but were I in your situation, I would let diplomacy go. It's only going to frustrate you because it is not what you want it to be.

just my 2c

[Aredhel]

Let me add something else to the mix, lest someone hasn't read the stuff Aruxpex has written in the past:

Originally Posted by Nil

Well, just to add a little something. They already have quests where if you fail, they'll kill you (well, they'll try to anyway).

And it does extend to adventuring areas, especially when faction is considered.

This is so very right, and the deal is, guilds will need diplomats in order to do certain things, which includes gaining faction with various cities/areas to gain things like...supplies, housing, friendship...

The tip of the iceburg hasn't even been seen yet! Diplo isn't for everyone...so true, but they will be very necessary in future content in order to gain favor. A good diplo will assist a guild in numerous areas, so don't feel "trapped" yet. If you do, give it up now before you someone else reads this that doesn't understand long range implications! Go be an adventurer and be the one that helps protect the diplo on their quest to gain attributes for the guild and the others to gain the supplies for crafting certain things!

Vanguard is WAY far from being "finished," and won't be finished until they shut down the servers in...what....10 or 20 years?

Remember the two words that brought so many of us to MMORPGs....Ever Quest....

[MagicNumbers]

Originally Posted by Aredhel

Let me add something else to the mix, lest someone hasn't read the stuff Aruxpex has written in the past:



This is so very right, and the deal is, guilds will need diplomats in order to do certain things, which includes gaining faction with various cities/areas to gain things like...supplies, housing, friendship...

The tip of the iceburg hasn't even been seen yet! Diplo isn't for everyone...so true, but they will be very necessary in future content in order to gain favor. A good diplo will assist a guild in numerous areas, so don't feel "trapped" yet. If you do, give it up now before you someone else reads this that doesn't understand long range implications! Go be an adventurer and be the one that helps protect the diplo on their quest to gain attributes for the guild and the others to gain the supplies for crafting certain things!

Vanguard is WAY far from being "finished," and won't be finished until they shut down the servers in...what....10 or 20 years?

Remember the two words that brought so many of us to MMORPGs....Ever Quest....

I've never played EQ (SWG pre CU refugee) but I'm here for the long haul, which is probably why I take my time doing everything and annoy people in my guild when I don't want to level up until I work on crafting or diplomacy lol.