Some "State of Diplomacy" Stuff

[sorkvir]

[quote=Aruspex - SGO;24421]
- Starting in the next code patch for the game (I'm not allowed to reveal our patch schedule for non-content stuff), you will not be able to parley with an opponent more than 50 points greater than you in Diplomacy.
/QUOTE]

I have to not agree with this. Why put this in? If someone feels 'frisky' and wants to try it, why limit them? You don't limit us fighting 4 dot mobs. Why put some sort of limitation in Diplomacy sphere?

I personally think that this is part of the learning curve about what you're capable of and shouldn't be removed. Also, its nice to see what opponents I'll be going against later in my diplo life.

Can I just ask why remove this?

[Fyrestrom]

I think this was done to limit people from beating high level parleys that were broken. Maybe once the system is fixed they will open it back up.

[Aikur]

This may or may not be the right place to post this, but here it is.

Has anyone looked into the Courier Quest for Martok to get the free horse? I myself have been putting this off until last evening. The quest "A Strange Request" send me to CB to speak with someone there.

As i entered the area of the stables and near the person i need to speak with i noticed there were alot of "red con" guards about. One being a static spawn and 2 others roamers. I tried 3 times to talk with the stable master and all 3 times the static spawn guard starts chasing me down when i get within 10 meters of my update. Which then triggers the other 2 to join in. Is this intended? Am i missing something here or are the goblins and orcs that repressed?

Thanks for your time.

[Chernobog]

Hey, thanks much for the update - it's nice to see Diplomacy's getting a good deal of attention.

To clarify the below, I am a Vulmane Dreadknight (Demand/Demand for the lose...), 42 Diplomacy skill, with a decent deck (I made some poor reward choices). No beta experience whatsoever.

Here's my list of concerns and whatnot:

1) In the Vulmane horse quest, the NPC Lalen Frae is, as you're likely already aware, freaking impossible. I blew 20 minutes of the quest's 40 minute time limit parleying with her to absolutely NO avail: she only needs 6 points to win, I need 12, and her deck is mind-wrackingly powerful. After those 20 minutes, I logged off to fume off my frustrations; I was far too angry to continue playing the game.

2) For those of us with a 1-stat class/race combo (demand/demand, for example), there is almost nothing available to increase our capabilities of the other expressions beyond the 3-pt 3-influence high-cooldown card set we get from our trainer to "view the ways of the enemy." I have two cards that give me non-demand expression, and both are below par (Blunt Evaluation and a -1 Influence +2 Reason 0-cost card). While they allow me to put up a meager fight in non-demand conversations, they by no means give me a chance against the mediocre+ difficulty NPCs.

3) Currently, it seems that once a player reaches 42 Diplomacy, he needs to be an odds-defying, beta-practiced whiz at the game to succeed in ANY conversations with NPCs. I've attempted to practice my skill against 50-skill guards in Halagor (or some similar spelling) with a 100% Humiliating Loss rate, even when selecting conversations with expressions I'm strong at.

---

Since the guards and crafters of Halagor are unbeatable, and Lalen Frae is unbeatable, where I currently stand, I see absolutely no way of progressing higher in Diplomacy: I can't complete the Civic Diplomacy introduction quests nor the horse quest, I can't receive new cards, and I can't increase my skill or presence.

Please do evaluate that.


Thanks!
/Chernobog
Shidreth server

[Faffy]

Yesterday I was at a loss, my faction was in a downward spiral & I thought I would end up KOS in my own city.

When I got home from work late last night, I figured out a strat to play the guards for convince in LN that is unbeatable up to level 100 guards. I have raised my skill up to 70, my LN faction to 303, & my LN dip faction to over 500.

I start with good point, then use the 2 rebuttals I have, then the 5 point (can't remember the name, but it's the only one with purple in the avatar), then use good point whenever possible & have a snippet of wisdom in reserve for a finishing card. I have been able to singlehandedly pull the Increase the Guard lever (5% increase in accuracy) twice, once lastnight (took 1.5 hour) & this morning I found a better cluster of guards by the Palace & it only took about an hour.

I can see through the tutorial that a well made spread sheet from the info the NPC gives, could come in real handy on how to go about strats in new parleys, but I don't have the time to create one. Experimentation is risky, I clicked the wrong parley with a guard & still managed (barley) to win, but I'll feel a lot more confident once I have some kind of guide to reference as to how to predict how my opponents will play.

I was kind of expecting something other than the buff just appearing when I pushed the lever past it's threshold. I would encourage people to /join diplomacy, I have yet to find anyone to chat with in that channel & I feel some teamwork would be fun.

I love diplomacy because I can go AFK during the day when I'm hanging out with my 4 year old & not have to worry about coming back to a dead toon.

[Troubador]

Originally Posted by sorkvir

I think the most frustrating part of diplomacy is that the NPC's don't play by the same rules. Often, in fact, most of the time, they play cards that give them 2~3 influence but doesn't give us any inspire, demand, etc.

Its frustrating because a level 50 NPC can beat a lvl 85 diplo just because they have what I call a 'cheater deck'. They beat a good strategy because of better cards.

Although after one or 2 parleys, you can develop a strategy against them, its the intial learning (and subsequent faction hit) that makes it bad.

I agree. The initial training phase with the trainer was fun. It sucks you in... then *WHAM*. I started in Daragar's Post/Halgarad. I basically quit the instruction when I had to run to Veskal's Exchange to begin a quest that is impossible. At the time, I had like 40 or 41 Diplomacy. So I abandoned it (and the horse), and tried focusing on Civil. Egad, that was worse, so I went looking for other quests to try and boost either my card selection or my skill. I took a quest called 'Blood and Seals'. It was tough but okay, until I got to the third part. Talk to someone (Boritt) which requires 7 Domestic Presence. I had only 6, with the only bit of clothing that gave any. So, I couldn't get through that quest, and couldn't find any other quest to earn clothing that gave Domestic Presence. So, have abandoned regular Diplomacy.

Went back to Civil. Got my skill up to 55 after many hours, but now my faction is shot. Goes like this. Lose a parley: -12 Halgarad Faction, etc. Win a parley: +2 Halgarad Faction.

In parley, your opponents have 'designed' decks that give incredible advantage. I started recording what they played and tried to design decks to beat them. Impossible. I found that in a parley that was Red/Blue/Yellow, the cards they played gave Green. Go figure. So I was getting no fuel. Worse, many of them give Red (demand). I am Varanjar, and in my home town, for God's sake. I have ONE Demand assertion card. And one Demand evaluation card that doesn't fit with any of the rest of my cards (and for -1 Influence) mind you.

Without some way to buy, earn, or make faction clothing, quest lines are cut off. Without a way to be on even footing with similarly ranked opponents, parley simply drains your faction to zilch.

So, Diplomacy has stopped being fun. At least in Crafting, tedious as that is, you can make some headway.

I hope your efforts in making adjustments is successful. It has the potential to add much to the game.

Troubador (Crystyl, on Hilsbury).

p.s. Part of the problem is that the manual, and online material, seems insufficient in explaining the 'specifics' of how to accomplish anything. After doing the 'Lever' tutorial with the Civic Trainer, I went over to the 'Post with Notices', but clicking on it did absolutely nothing! That's not cool, or fair.