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Originally Posted by Jinxxer
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Originally Posted by XeroKill
I think it will be possible to debunk you numbers. Try looking at just regular auto-attack numbers. If ATK = Melee damage then auto attack should only ever hit as hard as what your ATK numbers say, but they don't. They hit higher and lower on a constant basis. This is true of ALL classes and ALL abilities and has been so since Beta 4 (probably more). There has to be some unseen anomalies that are calculated into their damage formulas that we do not see.
Secondly, the last thing we need right now is a nerf to Malice. It was nerfed already by getting its 15 seconds cooldown, which was reported as getting a 6 second cooldown, but I digress. The numbers that you provided are only the very top surface and the most superficial form of the damage calculations. To be honest, there is no way you can even begin to make this "conclusion" unless you know for certain how the game calculates its damage tables. So unless you can provide us with not only the damage formulas, but proof positive that they are accurate, there is no way that you can begin to make posts like this.
And to be perfectly honest I really hope that people will refrain from further posts of this nature that are based solely on 3rd grade math and the numbers they see in their combat logs. It will only lead to hysteria, confusion, and possible nerfs. No offense is intended by this, but your numbers are hardly conclusive.
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You know, this post more than anything was there to raise some discussion and answer some questions for me on how things function (i.e. Wrack triggers, etc.). I NEVER ONCE said that my numbers were perfect, exact or anything that should be taken in the highest regard. In fact, several times I mentioned how there are several other factors that can come in to play to affect them. I never once cried for a nerf to anything and for the most part reasoned out that things are still "okay" and if anything we're doing too little damage.
As for the melee attack numbers, from what I have seen so far, my auto-attack damage numbers stay within my ATK damage range on my character sheet unless I'm attacking a mob SEVERAL levels lower than I am or I get a critical hit and the likes. Keep in mind too that mobs DO have resistances and mitigation. I pointed out NUMEROUS times that those factors are not taken into consideration on the outcomes because I don't know their stats. So the best way I equalled it out was by getting numbers from the same mob types so there was little discrepency.
And yes, I do take offense. You were a compelte dick about it. I can withstand a retort because this was to raise some more awareness and discussion, but when you decide to attack me and try to make me look like a complete idiot, that pisses me off. Good for you. I will not stoop to your level.
I tried to take out as many variables as I could with the time I had alotted to me. The biggest thing I wanted to point out, and as I stated in my conclusion was that Wrack I should be doing more damage than it is. It doesn't do much over Malice II. So irregardless of formulas, the numbers I posted up can still fly because on most cases, EVERYTHING ELSE ASIDE, Wrack I is still not over damaging Malice II as it should be. That's a simple case of (400% + 44-50) is a lot greater than (150% + 32-38 ). |
Enhance your calm, John Spartan. I am terribly sorry if I hurt your feelings, but that was never my intention. I cannot honestly understand how or why you would take offense to my remarks. Aside from the last paragraph which could be misconstrued as "snippy" at best, there was nothing in my post that was derogatory or inflammatory. The fact is, the calculations that you provided as your evidence are indeed derived from math that most people learn in the 3rd grade. That is not an insult, it is a fact. I can assure you that if we had been discussing this in person, you would have understood my inflection and the desired approach to my post.
OK moving on! So if you were concerned more with the trigger rate and mechanics of Wrack and not the damage as it compares to Malice, then why is the post labeled as "Malice (II) and Wrack (I) damage wrong? Results inside..." instead of "Wrack (I) Not Triggering Like it Should? Results inside..." or something to that effect? In fact, the majority of your post focuses on the damage of Wrack as it compares to Malice, and only a very small portion of that post calls into question the frequency at which Wrack occurs. Correct me if I am wrong, but the majority of the original post in which I replied to focuses primarily on the damage of Wrack and Malice, does it not?
Additionally, I never said that you were asking for a nerf... I said that this kind of unfounded speculation can lead to nerfs. The reason I said that is because a lot of ignorant people like to read forums, and when they see ANY post that contains any kind of logical thought and especially math, they love to take it and run with it like a pair of scissors.
I have no issues debating with you, however if you wanted to chat about the trigger mechanics of our Finishers then perhaps next time you can spare more than a couple sentences to the real topic you wish to discuss.
If it helps, and I doubt it will, I am writing this with the tone and temperament of a calm and rational debater, not as a flame or an insult. I am not upset or frantically responding to your post. Please do not take it out of context. I am not trying to insult you or anyone else. I am just trying to run damage control so that some nut-job Paladin doesn't come in here and copy this post to all his buddies and proclaim "ZOMG Nerf Dread Knights!" or so that some nut-job Dread Knight doesn't start running around screaming that the sky is falling.